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I wouldn’t make that conclusion, but it does seem clear that Tinder is a waste of your time.
I was on all the gay apps plus Tinder, looking for even one decent conversation let alone a date. Bummed out hearing my housemates have loud sex all the time.
Eventually I decided to loosen my standards a little and changed the Tinder age range from 25-30 to 18-45. The next day I went on a date with the younger gentleman of 23 (I was 29 btw) and now we’re happily settled down with two dogs and a cat.
So moral of the story is - if you can’t get a date, review your preferences. You never know what you might be missing for no good reason.
scratches chin
So, I need to be gay? That does turn over quite a few new leaves.
Gay and willing to date young dudes.
There is “ELO” in these dating apps,
Swiping a lot at a low success rate makes your elo drop and you appear less in general, and if you do appear it’ll probably be to another low elo person.
I don’t like dating apps but if I had to advise, delete and remake the account to be “fresh” elo with no history and say no atleast 90% of the time. With the 10% being what you think is a decent shot.
In montreal? Is your profile in English? Might be the problem
Tinder is a hellhole intentionally designed to keep people lonely and depressed so they’ll pay up for the “gold” features. The gender split is well past 80/20 male/female so good luck with straight matches, and the number of bots they leave up to waste your swipes is incredibly high, so even that ratio is probably worse.
Few years back I was on 5 dating sites, knocked it out the park on three of them. Got maybe 2 dates from Tinder and 1 from eHarmony (who I married!) Tinder was the first one I dropped, but they somehow fucked me out of an extra month or two.
Isn’t eHarmony a Christian dating site? I’ve heard people get bounced with no matches immediately based on some religious questions.
Nope. I believe they are owned by a Christian company, but the site isn’t religious. I met my wife on eHarmony back in 2021. We are both VERY much atheists, and we made that abundantly clear in our profiles.
well, it’s a religious site, so maybe try lying like most people do
Is there a dating site for followers of Baphomet?
Besides lemmy.
Weirdly appropriate username lol
Don’t think so. I put myself as “atheist” or “non-believer”, whatever the option was. My wife was a preschool teacher at a private Christian place.
Hinge worked for me. There was no pressure of “writing the perfect bio” - just pick 3 interesting questions that are insightful into who you are and you’re off to the races.
I’m pan and I can’t even match with a guy lolol :(
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Same, but for jobs.
Back when we were a real civilization, we didn’t try to find matches by looking at someone’s photograph, we would have considered that creepy and stupid.
Why are so many people doing an act that is objectively creepy, stupid and most users hate the entire experience? I haven’t met a single fucking person who enjoys tinder or online matchmaking in general. None. Not men, not women.
GO THE FUCK OUTSIDE. (edit: and talk to people. I can’t believe I have to add this detail, you cannot just literally walk around outdoors and expect something to happen, I’m just saying get off the internet, stop fucking scrolling and reading other people’s thoughts, it’s not helping you, strike up conversations and learn to get over yourself. You’re alone because your head is rammed so far up your own ass you can’t breath. DO NOT GO HIT ON RANDOM PEOPLE YOU DUMB FUCKS, SERIOUSLY “GO OUTSIDE” IS A METAPHOR FOR GETTING A REAL LIFE OFF THE INTERNET.)
This is distorting all your perceptions of what “attractive” even means. Last schlub I saw whining about this was just a normal-ass dude like my neighbor who has a wife and kids. All this talk about “attractiveness” makes no consideration for how humans actually feel about each other when they get to know each other.
“But it’s not that simple! The rest of the world is changed! You can’t just go talk to people! This is a oversimplification of a complex problem! REEEE!”
Bull. Shit. You tried like once or twice and people didn’t warm up to you and you felt ashamed. Or some dumb teenager broke your heart. That experience was supposed to teach you to try a different way, not teach you to give up. Shame is useless, it’s often a sign of having your head too far up your own ass. There are billions of people on Earth living the way we’ve lived for literal centuries. If you met some people you don’t match with, try several more. Even if you meet a million people, you’re still meeting 0.0125% percent of the population. Seriously, make EFFORT.
You are not a victim in this. Shed that automatic reflex to lash out at anyone who makes you feel accountability and you just might make it.
Why are so many people doing an act that is objectively creepy, stupid and most users hate the entire experience?
The death of third places.
Ahh I see you’d like to exist, that’ll be 10 dollars please.
That’s part of it, but missing third places are as much a symptom as a cause.
Because tell me, if you walked outside and your neighborhood was restructured and there were bars and a riverwalk and cafes and old dudes with funny hats painting scenes, would that actually help the huge swath of people who have never grown up in places where you go outside and know everyone?
Third places are more than places they’re community connection areas, and yah it can certainly help if the physical locations are there, but the big ingredient that makes it work is that people who live around these places have a history already of going out to meet friends, coworkers, family, casual acquaintances you value the opinion of, and so on. You never ran down to Horace’s shop when you were 9 years old with a $5 to buy milk for your mom, and it was okay because you knew Horace, everyone in the area knows each other, and people looked out for each other.
We’re missing some deeply fundamental things in the modern world, particularly in the USA and dense urban areas. A huge one is learning to just talk to other people without shame or fear… a LOT of our space and life would become designed around this kind of life if we actually valued it. We are falling for the comfort trappings of suburban/apartment hell where you can see any virtual world from your flat screen and VR goggles and talk to an AI who will order you dinner without having to talk to anyone.
Back when we were a real civilization, we didn’t try to find matches by looking at someone’s photograph, we would have considered that creepy and stupid.
That’s not true at all. Video, photography, and even paintings, have been used as early stages of courtship going back centuries. Matchmaking professionals have historically made heavy use of visual mediums to entice prospective partners into meeting. I remember dating services in the 1980s that would use video introductions and Polaroid photos to get people to meet one another. Photograph catalogues of singles ready to mingle in Matrimonial Ads of the 19th century. Oil paintings and ink sketches were commonly traded people prospective partners before that. Whatever you might say of the method, it isn’t new.
GO THE FUCK OUTSIDE.
I’ll never understand the folks who think going to a service specifically dedicated to meeting other single people and courting them is weirder than approaching random people and hitting on them in public.
weirder than approaching random people and hitting on them in public.
TBF that is pretty weird, where exactly did I say do that?
When exactly was that “real civilization”? When people were being arranged into marriages? Or when people would put ads into newspapers to find love? Or when dating shows started on TV? The next step after TV was pretty much Tinder. We have never been above using “creepy and stupid” options.
I don’t get the hate dating apps get. It’s a tool like every other, it helps you meet people outside of your regular circle. It’s not ideal because it’s next to impossible to everything you are into a short profile but it’s better than the solutions we came up before. The issue is that people don’t know how to use Tinder. Most people have no idea what their profile should look like, they put too much importance on any kind of a match and then they try too hard to get anywhere. Tinder match is the real world equivalent of locking your eyes someone on the street or a bar or a cafe or whatever. Just because that happened doesn’t mean anything more will happen. You don’t run after everyone who looks at you begging them to date you. So why do that on Tinder?
Millenial here. Never used online dating. Never used arranged marriages. Never used newspapers.
Dated a bunch. Just met and befriended a lot of people through shared areas of interest. Indoor soccer mixed league / gardening group / dog park / dog events at a local shop.
I also wasn’t creepy and bothered people with trying to get a relationship from these events. Just a chatty comical person. And with regular attendance - bumped into similar people over time and eventually did more personal shit with them and felt out why.
Online dating sort of (to me) turns the act of dating into a hobby or even a profession? and then people land these relationships where they expect something out of the other person. “You need a perfect resume with good line spacing and indentation, if you want connection!”
When I just pursued my hobbies and enjoyment areas and bumped into people who mutually enjoyed those things and would just talk about those things. Like at most seek connection to the things you love and do them with people you like. And then build on those connections. That’s what people really want when they log into profiles.
Note I don’t have any social media other than Lemmy. Haha.
The problem I have, is both my work and hobbies/sports are very male dominated, so there’s just not that many opportunities to meet someone.
I didn’t say dating doesn’t work. I also dated a bunch from my regular circle but eventually decided to switch to Tinder because I didn’t want intimate relations ruining my friends groups. Or at the very least I didn’t want to be the whose intimate relations would ruin friendships. That was my reason to go to Tinder.
And with my experience on Tinder what I did say was that Tinder is not some creepy or stupid way to go about dating. You don’t need to turn it into some kind a hobby or a profession. You don’t need to start a relationship (in it’s most general meaning) with some kind of expectations of intimacy or whatever. You don’t need a perfectly made profile. Those are the assumptions people have when they don’t understand Tinder. It’s a tool to meet people outside of your regular circle. You’re building this tool and the followup date to be bigger than it needs to be and of course it’s going to look creepy and stupid, you’re making it creepy and stupid. Here’s how I used Tinder.
I put minimum effort into swiping. I didn’t spend any time analyzing some images or bios or anything like that, if there was anything that remotely piqued my interest I would swipe right. If there was a match then texting was pretty much a vibe check, because at that point there was still nothing tangible and thus also no reason to put in a lot of effort. If they’re cool I would offer to go out, have a coffee or a walk in the park or anything neutral that still gives us the space to have a chat and figure out who we’re really meeting. A meeting is still not a commitment so I didn’t treat is as such. If they ghosted they ghosted and I’d just do something else. When we actually met I didn’t treat them like some kind of a checklist of my expectations for them. In fact I had no expectations for them. I had am idea of who I’m looking for but I’d also have to match who they’re looking for to actually have a match between us, so no reason to expect anything at that point. And the date would be just chatting and learning who they are and I made a lot of friends that way because there wasn’t anything romantic there but they were cool people.
I don’t think there’s anything particularly creepy or stupid about that. The first part seems creepy but that’s just how the tool works. If someone gave you a list of random 100 people and told you to figure out how who you’d want to meet you’d probably do the exact same thing because going in-depth with 100 people before you’ve even met them is creepy as nobody would (nor should) put in that much effort.
Ha my friend group got blown up recently from exactly the situation you described. Sucks.
Yes, literally those are our only options here, dark-ages arranged slavery or “The Love Connection” or dating apps everyone (but you!) hate with a passion. That’s really spot-on. Perfect, exactly the smart, nuanced responses I’m always delighted to have to interact with.
The “people don’t know how to use Tinder” is fine, great, fucking whatever. In the end all you’re doing is trying to replicate the way people have been meeting and getting to know each other for eons. If it works for you, FINE GO USE IT. I’m obviously not talking to the minority who enjoy the effort of trying to replicate natural human behavior on a glowing screen.
I’m very obviously talking to the people it doesn’t work for or who have the same problems online as they do in real life. The huge fucking difference here is with dating apps, when you’re done swiping that’s it, you don’t learn anything, you don’t figure out how to be a better conversation partner, you don’t self-reflect in any healthy way and that’s how most people use it. It’s gestures into the darkness.
I’m sorry. I forgot I’m talking to a big alpha male who can only express themselves in an aggressive tone. My bad. And I’m sure your advice of “Just get over yourself and get out there you fucking pussy” is unbelievably useful to all those people who struggle to date. They definitely couldn’t have come up with that on their own. And of course fuck online dating because big stonk alpha no likey thing they no understand.
Buy a Delorean, find doc Brown and flux capacitor yourself back to the 80s where you belong.
I’m sorry I intimidated you with my text on a screen and made you think I’m big and scary because I used harsh language.
And sorry, to those struggling with socializing, there’s no shortcut. If you are that bad off, go get therapy, it works wonders. Otherwise, we all struggled at some point before we started learning it’s okay to be yourself even if it causes you to intimidate people on the internet.
Reminder: the internet didn’t always exist, people got along just fine. People have always struggled with socializing and then forcing themselves to get through their obstacles. The modern internet age disincentivizes you from going out and being a more social person who keeps learning. There are millions of kids out there giving up on life because they embarrassed themselves ONE time with someone, then got all kinds of support from other shut-ins. Many people do this on some level and that’s what we should be pushing against, even if it hurts some people’s feelings.
You being unnecessarily aggressive does not intimidate me. I simply didn’t appreciate the tone because when you act that way all you’re showing is that you can’t have a civil discussion.
And I agree that there are no shortcuts to socializing. But this “go out there and date” advice isn’t going to help anyone. It’s like telling someone living their car “just build a house”. It does nothing in regards to helping them figure out how to do that.
And I’m not sure what you’re even complaining about regarding dating apps. The date isn’t happening in the app. In the end they still have to go out there and date, the dating app simply helps them get to that step. The dating app replaces only the “asking someone out” step, not the actual date itself. It takes a small step out of the whole dating process and you’re acting like that’s the entire problem. At the end of the day it doesn’t really matter if you physically asked someone out or if you matched on Tinder and asked them out, because when it comes to the actual date you still have to put yourself out there. Unless the online dating has warped into something completely different within the last 10 years they still need to learn how to have a conversation, how to pick up cues and find the confidence to make a move. The only thing online dating changes is that people don’t need to take a rejection straight to their face and get embarrassed into never trying again.
The dating app replaces only the “asking someone out” step, not the actual date itself.
I want to nitpick on this, because I’m told a lot of people use these apps, match, and then never actually ask the other person out. They then are sometimes puzzled why they’re not going on dates.
The only thing online dating changes is that people don’t need to take a rejection straight to their face and get embarrassed into never trying again.
It also helps filter out “oh, she doesn’t date men”, “wow, he’s anti-vax”, “he doesn’t want kids, ever, and i do” kind of stuff. At least, when the app is working and not fully enshittified. That stuff is valuable.
Sorry for the nitpicks. Good post though, thanks.
I want to nitpick on this, because I’m told a lot of people use these apps, match, and then never actually ask the other person out. They then are sometimes puzzled why they’re not going on dates.
I’m not sure if you’re implying they’re the same person, as in they won’t ask anyone out and then wonder why nobody goes out with them? Because that I can’t really explain. I guess maybe they’re shy or they think the other person should be asking them out, but if you’re going to leave it solely to chance then you have to accept that there’s a chance you never get asked out. But if someone is thinks they’re trying but it just doesn’t happen, then that needs a more deeper dive into why it wouldn’t happen. From my experience most of the time the people I didn’t go out with were people who were closed off, so my most general advice in that case would be to try to be more open. Nobody wants to pry answers out of you. Talk about yourself, or if you don’t like talking about yourself be more proactive in getting to know the other person. Be interested in them and let them be interested in you.
It also helps filter out “oh, she doesn’t date men”, “wow, he’s anti-vax”, “he doesn’t want kids, ever, and i do” kind of stuff. At least, when the app is working and not fully enshittified. That stuff is valuable.
That as well. Some people put in their bios clear no-nos and I think that’s great.
Back when we were a real civilization, we didn’t try to find matches by looking at someone’s photograph, we would have considered that creepy and stupid.
My parents met by getting introduced to each other in what’s effectively an arranged marriage. Well, technically, it was not forced per se, but the village elders and/or their parents pressured it, they show photos, then they were pressured to agree to an arranged meeting, y’all talk to each other. The elders verify your 时辰八字 (some astrology stuff) to verify “compatibility”. Then if y’all like each other, the marriage happens. From what my mother told me, they could refuse, but then their parents / village elders just keep trying to find a new partner for you. Marriage is an expectation. 🤷♂️
This was like 1990’s, Guangdong Province, People’s Republic of China.
My parents are still trying to do arranged arranged marriage for my older brother (we live in the USA now) because my mother is afraid he wouldn’t find a spouse. He doesn’t seem to care about marriage either.
As for how my parents relationships are, I don’t think they really “love” each other, they kinda just put up with each other “for the kids”. When they do get in arguments, it can be quite terrifying, especially when I was still in K-12 school.
There’s like this expectation for you to get married early and have kids. (My older brother is many years older then me, and he’s is approaching 30 years old)
My reaction to this shit, is: I don’t wanna get married lol. I hate the idea of living with another human being. I never have any desires for romantic relationships. I wanna live and die alone. (And especially, fuck arranged marriages, ain’t doing that shit, rather be single than miserable. Not having one of the most important choices be dictated by parents.)
(Btw, I’m not even supposed to be born. My mother disobeyed the One Child Policy and gave birth to me)
As someone who is living in a non-arranged marriage, if it turns out well, a relationship can be quite magical.
It just sucks how dating looks like today, but if it works out, it is worth all of the shit.
Rejection is painful precisely because genuine connections are so desirable. The tension, the drama, and the luck-of-the-draw of dating is both what makes it miserable and exciting. Nice to see other interesting people and to be seen as interesting to others.
Happy for you and everyone else who had it worked out. But that’s not the case for many.
If I knew then what I know now, I’d not have picked the man who fathered my kids. I love those kids, but… Different father would make different kids. But maybe their lives would be better.
Possibly no man, no kids would have been better all in all.
“Btw, I’m not even supposed to be born. My mother disobeyed the One Child Policy and gave birth to me”
.
“especially, fuck arranged marriages, ain’t doing that shit, rather be single than miserable. Not having one of the most important choices be dictated by parents”
Right on, dude 🤘 Your entire existence is a rebellion so you might as well go the whole hog and live your way
Back when we were a real civilization, we didn’t try to find matches by looking at someone’s photograph
You just used to make funny videos instead: https://youtu.be/GGdQCicz4Ro
I agreed with this until I started doing lots of “go outside” stuff and realized there was a bit of nuance. Decided pretty quickly that I’d keep the dating separate from sports/activities because I really enjoy them and things get weird if you treat it like a dating pool. Now I somehow have to work up the courage to talk to someone without a contrived activity bringing us together.
Now I somehow have to work up the courage to talk to someone without a contrived activity bringing us together.
If the activity feels contrived, it’s probably the wrong fit. Yes, there is a deep realm of nuance to the “go outside” trope but it is real, at least in this case it’s being spoken from a place of experience. (Try growing up for the first couple decades of your life in a literal cult compound with no phone, an hour from the nearest gas station.)
It feels really weird the first time you strike up a conversation with a stranger for “no reason” but you do get over it. In fact, people don’t view you the way you’re imagining, as long as you’re not pushy or trying to be some kind of douche to compensate for insecurity, you will just be seen as someone with character and friendliness.
Look, I will pass on one HUGE tip that will make you seem like “the guy” which is to learn to be hospitable. Care about if the people around you are comfortable, not like you want to get them to like you, not in a fussing overbearing way, but like, imagine how you feel alone around strangers, and make that experience better for them. Men, women, whatever. Everyone wants someone to reach out and ask them how they’re doing and what they’re up to.
For someone you might have romantic interests in, don’t over-invest and always give them an out. Say hi, offer a complement (fashion choices or hair are better choices than intrinsic qualities like eyes or features.) and then you say “Well, nice to see you, I’m going to go get a slice of pizza/a fresh drink, would you like anything?” Or whatever people are doing there for fun. Or say “Cool, I have to catch a call in a few minutes, but it was great talking.”
AND THEN YOU LEAVE. Just go, don’t have expectations but also don’t literally run away and avoid people. You’re just introducing yourself, and you may never see them again, but if you’re doing this consistently, this is what people associate you with. Sooner or later someone will say “I’ll be at the thing by the place after this, I hear they serve good [STUFF] want to come try it?”
That one simple trick will take you further than any dating coaches or tricks. It’s just called being hospitable, giving people space but being present. Plant a seed, nurture it over time. You form friend groups like this, you become popular at parties and work functions, you make potential partners feel at ease as long as you’re consistent and keep a take-it-or-leave-it attitude.
The hospitable thing is true, kind of happens automatically if you’re new to activities. You’re often pretty bad so being nice is a good way to offer something back to the group while you’re learning. There’s a language barrier where I live that makes relaxed chit-chat with strangers extremely difficult. At the moment I’m just not thinking about it, always seems like things work out if you’re in an environment where you’re meeting lots of people each week.
because people dont have social skills anymore. COVID really fucked a lot of people up, and when you see what happens to the people who even try to make an attempt, it really turns you off of doing anything, just ever in general. I dont have this problem cuz I kinda lucked out on social skills IRL, even if I suck at it online :p just celebrated my 3rd anniversary https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j3rmrml1oNs
I say this to everyone out there, this is a “buy the dip” opportunity time for people on a social level. Go adopt a group of poorly-socialized peers and just reinvent socializing from the ground up. No rules, no enforcement, wanna play retro games and get high like teens? How about everyone goes to the horse races even though nobody knows how? Just go buy a couch together, decide who gets it after with a game of chance.
This is how movements are made. I’m not even kidding, there are TONS of people out there of all walks of life who just want someone to show them how to “social” and are scared of doing something strange and being embarrassed. Everyone is in this deeply isolated headspace hoping someone throws a rope and offers a way out.
Be a way out. Worst that happens is half of them flame out, you still end up with some people in your life you can talk to and hang out with. If you’re single, maybe you will hit it off with one of them or someone they know, but if not, who cares. It’s still better than being alone.
None of us get out of this alive.
Yup. Go out and invite people. You’ll be surprised at how many answer the metaphorical or literal call
I will state, well over half are likely to flame out without considerable effort. Hit rates aren’t that high
No meaningful relationship I’ve ever had has come from an app, they’ve all been through connections I’ve made IRL. As frowned upon as it seems to be, I met my fiancée at an old job. I’m not what you would call conventionally attractive and find the whole online dating thing a bit awkward so IRL seems to be where I shine in that regard because my other qualities come through and not just my looks. At the other end of the spectrum, one of my sisters met her fiancée through an app and seems to have found several meaningful relationships before him through apps too.
I think that fighting the apps is a losing battle - as third spaces continue to disappear people have to meet somewhere. I think there’s room for them in the dating space. However I agree that as a society we need to tackle the toxic expectations they create, and we also need to remember that just like every other big tech platform, they make money from your engagement.
Fuck the Capitalist commodification of love.
Drop the dating apps & muster up the patience go do things & meet people irl instead.
I don’t think I’ve ever met someone organically and then dated them
They say workplace relationships don’t work and they’re probably right, but the problem is that’s the only place you ever meet anyone these days.
I asked out my coworker about a week ago.
I can’t recommend against it enough.
When you befriend the people at your workplace, you will also meet their friends.
That’s wishful thinking. I might be befriendable, but I’m not fit to introduce to people.
Have you tried shitpost dating?
When everyone in your workplace is a transplant, their friends are just other coworkers
Which is not a bad start to make more friends.
Before you started working you meet people at school, well, take classes and meet people you don’t work with!
meeting women is really easy if you’re friends with women. they always have single friends who they’d be happy to introduce you to. obviously don’t be friends with women just for this purpose though
That requires having time to be friends with and meet people
If you don’t have time for friends you definitely don’t have time for dating.
It feels Machiavellian to do something like befriending people or playing sports that I would not otherwise do
That only works out if you are attractive to begin with.
Most people have good qualities that make them attractive (if you have none then that might be something to work on). Just treat women like they are ordinary human beings (which they are) - ask questions, listen to the answers, check back with them at a later date to see if that thing they mentioned worked out, offer to help if they have a problem, etc.
I lack good qualities, true. I don’t know if that could be worked on, as large part of it is me being ASD.
I treat women as you said, it’s simply that they generally avoid me.
Most men can drastically improve their appearance with some effort. Best plan for this is to ask your closest female friends what you can do. Also, having an attractive personality counts for a lot (potentially more than looks depending on the woman) assuming you aren’t fuck ugly.
Welp, I am simply at another level of ugliness. Also friends? What is this thing called “a friend”?
If you want, send me a pic (privately) and I’ll tell you if it’s really over or what you can do to look better. As for friends, that’s more complicated, but I got all my friends by talking to strangers in public.
Yeah I think that’s common, but it’s literally how we’ve been doing it since, well, forever.
Big Tech wants you to think it’s scAAaRRrry BooOoOOo!
(I mean, tbf, sometimes it is. Also humiliating lol).
Opposite for me. I’ve gone on plenty of first dates via apps, and a few second dates, but have only ever “dated” people that I happened to meet organically.
I have! Once, in highschool, it went poorly
Honestly, I’m good. I never really used apps but I have had a lot of girlfriends through mutual friends and such. I’m just over it. I’m tired of romance and especially tired of sexuality. I just want to program computers.
Careful or you’ll get exactly what you’re asking for.
That’s the goal, man. I would be happy to never have sex again. I always felt like it was more for her benefit than mine anyway.
Yes, I understand. But it’s less about the sex & moreso the companionship. When you’re 58 years old hanging out by yourself day in/day out, you may wish you’d put more effort into developing relationships.
Maybe not, I’m just saying.
I have sufficient companionship. Plenty of true friends who know and love the real me. I’ve been more fortunate in this than most people could hope to be if I’m being honest. I really think that when you take sex out of the equation, most of modern dating is a feeble attempt to foster this type of relationship. People are afraid to reveal their true self and so they seek one person they feel safe enough to do so with, when you can actually have this relationship with everyone you’re close to if you’re brave enough.
I love being friends with women but I don’t love being romantically or sexually entwined with them. And I’m not attracted to men. So why pursue it? I socialize when I have the energy for it. In the rest of my free time, I want to write code.
Good to hear. I hope you continue having lots of fruitful relationships, you seem like a reflective person.
I actually think being physically intimate allows two people to become closer, unless they’re asexual, of course (sounds like you might be).
And I agree with you about shallow relationships but, imo, it’s dating apps that cause the problem, not sex.
Dating apps do not always allow relationships to blossom naturally. Tinder dates (or whatever) can feel more like job interviews. Real yucky stuff.
I agree that physical intimacy can make people become closer, but I’m not always sure that’s for the best. I think it’s better kept as something to enjoy after a deeper bond has already formed. Anyway, I’m not asexual but I am somewhere on that spectrum, not sure where though. Also yeah… when my friends tell me about their tinder dates I can’t believe how transactional and almost algorithmic their date sounds. It’s such a shame that it’s the norm now.
Women do not want to be approached in public.
We’re better off regulating dating apps and predatory buisness practices, because people prefer to use apps.
Women as a whole want different things, and often don’t know what they want from moment to moment. In my experience, most women prefer to be approached in public under some circumstances, and what those circumstances are differs wildly from woman to woman.
women ought to have a signal that they are open to being approached, like a PvP flag or something
The thing is, there are signals - open body language, frequent glances around the room, etc.
The tougher bit for some folks is also seeing, and respecting, when they clearly want you to go away, AND not taking it personally. They may want someone to approach them, but for whatever reason not you. That’s perfectly OK, and says nothing about your general worth, just their interest at the moment.
Go, initiate contact, and if you’re getting one word replies, crossed arms/body facing away from you, refusal to meet eyes, inauthentic laughs, etc., exit cheerfully, move on with your day and let her move on with hers.
The biggest problem I’ve had women tell me about is not being approached, but guys not taking the hint if it’s not clicking and leaving them be. Be the guy who reads the situation, takes the hint if present and doesn’t get all fucked up about it, and you’ll probably end up talking to someone who does want to talk to you later.
Should note this is often just human stuff, and holds for a lot of guys as well with the caveat that they’re often, though not always, more direct.
They may want someone to approach them, but for whatever reason not you.
I remember in college being mildly devastated when a friend I had a thing for was talking about how she just wanted to meet someone that (superficially) seemed a lot like me, but then was not into me.
Of course, in retrospect I realized I’d done that to couple women without realizing what was happening.
Yeah, I’m autistic so reading behavioral cues more or less doesn’t work for me. It’s not impossible but my error rate is significantly higher than most people’s. I just focus on being friendly and honest. I always take an opportunity to be introduced to someone. I always take an opportunity to become closer to someone if they want that. I also focus on being pretty (I only attract bisexual women, lol)
In my perception, approaching women like the days of old (pre social media) is dead as a concept. There are two ways forward: women become more explicit about when they want to be approached, or they themselves do the approaching. It seems to me that the latter is the path they’ve chosen. Every woman I’ve ever dated has come to me and made it clear they want me in that way. Is this a good solution? Probably not. More people are single than ever but that is caused by a lot of factors, not just this social change.
Reading minds isn’t a “signal”
I’m sorry but if men and women want equality in their relationships then women need to stop this middle-school behavior.
There are reasons subtlety and body language evolved.
Some men don’t take direct “Not interested. Please leave me alone” well. They’ll call you a [slur, slur] and maybe get violent. But fake laughter and dead-ending the conversation has lead to safer outcomes.
So, yeah, it sucks people can’t be direct and honest, but it’s not just coming out of malice.
Also a lot of the time people don’t really know what they want, or want contradictory things.
I understand the excuses people make to not act like mature adults.
I’m sorry if men were rude to you, them acting like children doesn’t give you a pass.
If you don’t mind me asking, how is this reading minds? This is watching for behavioural cues, which lend some evidence of interest/disinterest. Men exhibit similar cues as well - think about the guy sitting at the bar, facing the interior with a grin looking about, versus the guy hunched over with a scowl counting the bubbles in his beer. Unless you’re moved by pathos to clink scowling guy’s glass, who seems more approachable?
Will admit there are folks who see a single behavioural cue and immediately jump to “They want to jump my bones”/“They wish me and my family were dead”, which is dumb. What I’m talking about is more “Oh, looks like they may be open to chat with someone, go say hi”, then noting if that impression stays or dissipates on fresh evidence. Again, the biggest problem I’ve heard of is people, but particularly women approached by men in a social setting, not wanting to tell the approaching party to fuck off (politely or otherwise) because of a perceived or real threat of violence. But this feeling often comes across pretty clearly in body language - if you’re a decent person, reading those cues and and exiting gracefully just makes sense.
Discounting non-verbal cues in IRL communication is silly. We give out a lot of information about how we’re feeling with our bodies to those paying attention. I’ll admit it can sound kinda creepy when writing it all out, but for some folks this is all intuitive. For other folks, thinking about this a bit helps with being more at ease in talking with new people, whether platonically or with an eye to something more.
Adults use their words to communicate.
Children play games.
That’s not reading minds though. What was being described are social skills you very likely already have, but are used to applying to non romantic interactions with men.
This is like saying common sense is common.
It isn’t. And we can’t expect people to know everything so sometimes we have to use words.
Women are human individuals and not a single-minded monolith.
What women universally don’t want is to feel threatened, creeped out or objectified. It is perfectly possible to talk to someone without doing any of these. Though it gets a lot easier when you view them as humans.
I said elsewhere that writing a good profile is a skill many people have neither the aptitude nor training for, and thus fuck it all up.
Talking to strangers in public? Also a skill, and I’d say a much more difficult one with much higher stakes.
I’ve known charismatic sensitive people that can read a scene and chat up people. That’s an outlier. Most people are bad at all of that.
also, remember the “man or bear? Definitely the bear” thing from a while ago? Still a thing.
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I missed the part where the person your responding to said in public?
Go to meetups, the climbing gym, run clubs, volunteering, language class, literally anywhere you meet people
When & who it is/is not appropriate to approach is a totally separate issue from what I’m talking about.
I think the problem has more to do with the expectations of meeting people via dating apps vs organically irl, especially through common interests/activities.
Also, let’s be real, regulating Capitalism does not work (look around).
Also, let’s be real, regulating Capitalism does not work (look around).
*looks around*
It seems to work fine around me. I peeked at your profile to confirm my assumption that you’re American, and it seems I’m correct. I’d say it’s partly a cultural issue in your country. The whole rugged individualism thing leads to a whole lot of anti-regulation sentiment. In my country even the ultraconservative “let’s throw the gays in the oven and deport all black people to Africa” party isn’t considering privatizing healthcare or education. The classical liberals are considering this, but this is where having a sane election system comes in. Since neither the conservatives nor the socdems agree, it’s pretty hard for them to enact anything even if they do win an election, because “winning” an election usually means like ~30-40% of parliament seats and the ruling coalition is always a minimum of 2 parties, often 3. Plus the president’s one and only power is that he can tell them to fuck off if a law seems unreasonable.
We currently have people from 6 parties in parliament, plus some people who were either thrown out of their party, or left it willingly.
We’re pretty good at making noise if we don’t like something, and while a lot of people complain about our MPs and ministers getting paid so much, it means they can live well enough without taking bribes. Party donations have limits that can get people into actual trouble if exceeded, and individual campaign donations aren’t a thing. Political corruption gets the party fined and potentially individuals punished too. Even in municipal government corruption cases. There was a case that took several years, where a businessman approached a politician in the same party as the capital city’s mayor, implying that if the mayor were to reduce certain legal costs on the department store his company was building, the party would receive a major donation - which it then did. The party got fined nearly 10x what they made from this deal, and two people received probationary sentences. This party, formerly a major player, can now barely afford their next election campaign. The company that owns the future department store has been fined more than once for not getting it done as fast as promised - because it’s in a prominent location along the promenade.
We have tons of consumer protection laws too. Plus a government entity for consumer protection so you don’t have to hire a lawyer and go to court to get your justice in a lot of cases. Similar for employment rights, etc. Fire someone without a paper trail to prove their incompetence or malice? You’ll be paying them a hefty severance.
There’s a big gap between what you’re describing and the USA. We pretty regularly see fines that are a fraction of what the crime earned, if it’s prosecuted at all. We also have an utterly insane far right wing party and a spineless right party.
We should break up match group. It’s not a whole ass monopoly, but it has such a big market share it doesn’t really need to compete much. So it offers garbage, makes a lot of money because there aren’t a lot of other like options (and people don’t realize the apps are all owned by Match)
There’s a big gap between what you’re describing and the USA. We pretty regularly see fines that are a fraction of what the crime earned, if it’s prosecuted at all. We also have an utterly insane far right wing party and a spineless right party.
Yeah, that’s my point. It’s not that capitalism can’t be regulated, it’s that the US can’t regulate capitalism sufficiently enough.
We should break up match group. It’s not a whole ass monopoly, but it has such a big market share it doesn’t really need to compete much. So it offers garbage, makes a lot of money because there aren’t a lot of other like options (and people don’t realize the apps are all owned by Match)
Agreed. So many monopolies out there that people barely realize are monopolies because a parent company owns a bunch of different “competing” brands rather than running everything under one brand name. Match Group is one of them.
Take a class.
Fuck capitalism for sure, but the apps can still work. I know happily married couples who met on tinder. Not saying that it’s everyone’s experience, but still. The more avenues people are open to the better sometimes.
We’re a happily married couple who met through OkCupid, back when that was decent!
Honestly, OKC back in its heyday was the place to be. So many of my friends made legitimate, genuine connections there. Devastating that they ended up being sold to match. OKC had plenty of people, but it was apparently the goto for all the nerds. A lot of them use meetup now, but there’s really nothing like what it was for nerd/nerd dating.
Remember how you could search for interests? I’m pretty sure you could just like type in “Final Fantasy” or “Speed Chess” and find people who liked it enough to put it on their profile.
Now it’s just a shadow of what it used to be. A crappy tinder knockoff with vestigial profiles.
Second that. I met my partner on OKC 8 years ago, and before I met them I also made lots of connections and had several dates with other people I met via OKC, some of whom I’m still friends with. The site certainly wasn’t perfect, all dating sites are straight up self-esteem murderers if you’re a heterosexual man, but as far as dating sites go, it was the best I’ve used because it actually tried to match you with people who shared values with you.
At the same time I was also on tinder, and it was a barren wasteland of boring normies and felt more like a meat market than anything. I never had a meaningful match on there.
The problem is when it works it’s despite the algorithm not because of it. It’s probably easier for women, as there are more men on dating sites and there are women on dating sites.
We’ll have to make sure we’re not looking through rose tinted lenses here, you know what they say, the odds are good but the goods might murder you.
I really don’t think that’s an accurate assessment of the algorithm, but seeing as I am not privy to it, and I imagine you’re not either, I’m not really sure that’s a point worth discussing.
It’s certainly easier for women to get matches on tinder, but not really sure how that’s related. I didn’t specify the sex or sexual orientation of the couples I was referring to. And even for heterosexual couples, it does mean a man found a wife through tinder, so it being easier to get matches as a woman does not mean that men don’t get matches, it’s kinda a necessary step in the women getting matches thing.
I met my wife on Tinder in 2015 ❤️ Met her on my second week.
I think I’ve had like two dates from in-person meets, and if I put effort (without paying) into it I can get like 1-3 dates a week on the apps. I’m not a model or other outlier.
I live in an urban area and put effort into writing messages. The bar for men is really low.
All of that said, fuck the capitalist hellscape.
Quality over quantity, bruv.
I don’t think that’s really applicable here.
Every date is a roll of the dice and you’re hoping for that Yahtzee. Or at least a four of a kind. If you’re making four rolls a week you’re probably going to find it faster than one a month.
You’re also don’t have unlimited time. You probably don’t want to find your first big love when you’re 70, when you could instead find one at 30.
And to be clear, I wouldn’t recommend going on a date with just anyone with a pulse. Check your deal breakers and shared interests first.
Of course, you could do app-dates and from-real-life dates at the same time.
This also assumes you, like me, have boundless energy for dates. I know people that are exhausted just leaving their house once.
hey i like your overall points but i need to point out that it’s SO much more than “rolling the dice”. i do agree that quality over quantity is more important when dating. and that means not just “how good are they” but really “what kind of person are they?”
you may have 3 dates a week via apps, but they’re all with people who use dating apps, in a dating app context. not trying to put anyone down, but it’s just different than meeting a friend of a friend at game night or something. so to use your dice metaphor, it’s more like praying for a nat 20 while rolling d6s.
It’s more like “friend of a friend” is a +2 circumstance bonus, and you’re rolling 1d20 + Investigation vs DC 17. It helps, but it’s pretty small. You can stack bonuses on your profile (eg: Good Pictures +3, Good Profile Text +2) to get a similar effect.
Also a lot of my friends’ friends aren’t people I’d want to date.
There are so many people using dating apps in 2025, it’s not a big filter. If this was 1997, then “meeting people online” would in fact be a very small slice of the population.
This is so weird to me. I’ve only ever dated people I was friends with first.
When I was younger I sometimes tried to go out with people I was friends with first. The rejections were worse. I’d still have to see her all the time at social events.
There was also a lot more “oh! She’s cool! Shit. She’s seeing someone. And doesn’t date men.”
The apps let you filter for a lot of stuff right up front. Don’t have to waste time pining after people that aren’t available.
Someone from the app says no or doesn’t click? Back into the aether they go, never to bother me again.
To each their own, if it’s working for you, but there are a lot of things dating apps can do better. Capitalism just shits up the place, as usual.
Hell yeah!
Agreed that the capitalist commodification of love sucks, but also, who even does things IRL anymore? And if you do, success rate isn’t that great either, unless you abide by rules 1 and 2.
I’m no longer single, but when I was, there were two main activities I did outside of work. Gym - a place where it just feels wrong to approach women. And women never approached me. Bar - cozy local small community place where I had plenty of great conversations with a lot of people, many of whom were women, but most were in relationships already. Maybe it’s the same for women as it is for men, where in a relationship you’re more confident and thus have an easier time talking to strangers. Made some friends though.
When I was on Tinder, though, with my fairly mediocre appearance, I’d still get matches. Not every day, but at least a couple a month in even the slower periods and like half of them evolved into at least conversations (not a simple “hey” -> unmatch). Met some IRL. Both times I’ve been on Tinder, I eventually found someone there, though it was over a year in both cases (nearly 3 years second time). And both times the person I found was someone who’d pretty much just joined. I don’t live in what I’d call a big city though.
Nowadays, I also work from home with no office option (unless I rent one for myself), so even shitting where I eat is not an option if I become single. What DO people do in their free time where they meet new people, besides nightlife activities? I’m not interested in drinking 2-3 nights a week anymore lol
Hobbies, classes, sports teams, volunteering
If you want to meet women, take a pottery class, join a softball league, take knitting lessons, join a book club, volunteer at a local animal shelter, go to the library regularly, join a protest, join a running or biking group, or even look around on one of those meetup apps for activities in your area
Maybe your problem was that you only went to your gym and your bar, instead of trying to meet new people? The point is, it’s easy to get stuck into a routine, and swiping on Tinder often becomes part of the routine
Maybe your problem was that you only went to your gym and your bar, instead of trying to meet new people?
I guess I wasn’t super actively trying to meet new people, I was focusing more on my career. Most of those activities unfortunately sound boring to me. Biking group sounds nice. In fact, the only two ways I can do cardio is with a podcast or with other people. Otherwise I go flat out because to my ADHD mind, the end goal of all movement is to get to your destination ASAP. Book club sounds like a great way to get some accountability for my total lack of a reading habit these past few years, so I might look into that as well. There apparently is at least one in my city. As a kid I’d read several books a week, now it’s several years per book :(
Isn’t great? Eh I’m 1 for 1 and I most certainly do not follow rule one or two. Just talked and made it work with a friend of a friend
Sankey diagrams are cool
Huh, i just realized orienting it vertically like this fixes one of the biggest issues with Sankey plots, which is fitting in the text annotations.
Same! I have never considered this but have made plenty of plots where it is now the obvious solution.
I recommend homosexual dating.
Always struck me as a pain in the ass.
I’m not sure how accurate that’s going to be compared to carbon dating but I’ll give it a go I guess.
I always wanted to join bear colony.
But aren’t you scared of the women?
I heard bears attract them
I heard bears attract them
Only the ones with a poor understanding of risk. Maybe that’s desirable?
As a homosexual dater, I dissent.
Yeah, the only times in my life I couldn’t quickly get gay-laid were when I went through difficult times that left me temporarily rizzless.
How did you turn it around? Did you apply for Rizz Stamps / SNAP? Were you able to get temporary rizz?
The Rizz is with us always, it binds us, surrounds us. I lost my connection to the Rizz through hubris and haste.
Now? I am the Rizz, and the Rizz is with me.
My homosexual dating looks a lot like OP’s. Truth be told, the gays want poly or nothing, and fun without commitment. 🤷♂️
If you only want to get laid it’s great but expect plenty of picky folks and beware of the STDs.
I kind of agree with this. I have no interest in that preference but they do seem a lot more open and straightforward about their interest, than dating women
Of course they’re also more driven by appearance, so that advice about hitting the gym goes double
Yeah! Fuck women. If I could. Legally. If she agreed with. I gotta ask my wife first. She said no.
You assume people are actually getting to see your profile. There are no stats of that available though.
I don’t know how good their algorithm is nowadays, but generally Tinder will show you profiles they think you’d want to match with, but ideally not get in a lasting relationship with. They want you to keep using the platform, not find true love.
If you get swiped left enough, Tinder won’t really show you to most people. That part of their algorithm definitely works, it’s easy. I’m not sure if they’ve yet found a way to quantify risk of lasting relationship.
My last experience (late 2022) is that if you’re a free user, they will never show your profile to someone you’ve swiped right for, nor show you any profile that has liked you, in order to force you to buy the premium and get to see who liked you
My last experience ended in mid 2023, but I definitely did not have that experience.
Occasionally I wouldn’t see the people that had swiped right on me, but usually I did. Free user.
The whole blurred “upgrade to see who liked you” thing was funny because once you ran into that profile, you’d immediately recognize the blur.
Back then, I did personally experiment and simply started swiping left to every profile. After 300 “nopes” (I counted), I didn’t miss a single match, despite the little ticker showing “49+” profiles that have liked me
I know Tinder has lots of ways to detect if you’re a returning user, which could’ve been one of the reasons for me being so “unlucky”
I had a match last week, as a free account who’s never had premium.
This is how you find out your profile’s bad.
I don’t know how applicable this is to this persons specifically, but here’s some general advice from someone who’s been on both sides (I’m trans), and got a high amount of matches either way.
Every woman I’ve spoken to about Tinder agrees :
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Men overwhelmingly have profiles with little to no info in their bio (most often copy-pasted jokes, extremely generic facts like “I like food and music”…)
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And poorly taken and/or cringe photos (posing with their car, half drunk with half a dozen other people, making a weird face, showing off nonexistent gains…)
If you want more matches, you need good pictures (not blurry, not from far away, not backlit) that stand out from the rest (especially, no one cares about your car. An expensive car is a huge douchebag redflag), and a bio that actually says something about your hobbies, world view, etc.
So, in summary, two steps :
- Actually be an interesting person (probably already true, but hard to fix if not)
- Communicate that properly (easier than you think, see above)
It’s been a minute, but it was an automatic “no” when someone would answer “what are 5 things you can’t live without” were stuff like food, water, and air. Yes, I know that. Tell me about yourself!
It was almost always men that answered that way.
I know I’m incredibly dull. I’m average looking. I was a single parent. A decent picture and a little about myself and I did alright though, even with the ladies.
I have bad news: lots of non-men also post useless stuff like “I can’t live without water lol” or “what are you looking for: my keys lmfao”
Having a good profile is a skill, probably related to marketing, and some people have neither natural aptitude nor training in it.
Sure, people of every gender do it. I was, at the time, not filtering by gender. I noticed that the useless answers were usually from men.
It doesn’t mean that men are inherently bad at it (some men had great profiles), but as a whole they presented themselves poorly compared to everyone else.
I believe you. I wonder if anyone’s done studies on this to verify it’s true, how true it is, and maybe figure out why it’s true.
Not having the natural aptitude or training is a reasonable excuse to not having a good profile, but if you come to conclude that is why you don’t have any matches you’re not totally helpless. You can at least try and improve it. There is plenty of good suggestions in this thread alone.
One of the problems I think is there aren’t good feedback mechanisms. If you have a bad profile, probably no one is going to tell you.
Well, some of the apps do have tutorials that try to help. I think Hinge even crammed an AI tool into the profile writing section. Maybe that helps some people. I think a lot of people just don’t understand the assignent, and think their personality and charm will shine through even when it’s not shown at all. Those people probably won’t use the tools or take feedback.
I skip on a lot of blank or bad profiles, and wonder if those people think they’re ugly or being screwed by the algorithm or whatever. I don’t have a way to be like “you’re not giving me anything to work with, and frankly this sole impression you’re giving me reads as lazy and uninteresting”
“I like tacos! 🌮🌮🌮”
I think it’s nuts people don’t think of it like a resume.
“ACKtually, there are certain molecules and bio-organisms you can’t live without and-- Hey, where are you going!?”
Counterpoint: tried the above to make a “good” profile, and also a “basic” profile literally generated from AI as a control.
The basic AI generated profile full of cliches and revealed nothing about me consistently got more attention.
Research has shown that most people overwhelmingly prefer “average” people, so if your goal is just maximising the number of matches then an “interesting” profile is actually worse.
I don’t think we can draw conclusions from this without knowing more details about what was in the “good” profile.
If the “good” profile was interesting like “I love extratone and 16th century spanish poetry” I can see why that won’t get hits. People can’t relate to it. But the matches you do get will be starting in a better position.
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Lore can be harmfuller tho.
They get more out of you if you don’t find a date.
He must be doing something drastically wrong for not even the ThotBots to be matching with him.
the ThotBots
Are those the matches that only want to talk about World of Warcraft?
You say that like it’s a bad thing
“Hey cutie! Can you tell me where I can find Mankrik’s Wife?”
Oh fuck, all day in the barrens chat
I don’t even know how his name is properly spelled anymore
Shutup and take my virginity
