There are downsides with downloading their app just to input bad data, but it’s a fun thought.
I posted in [email protected] to collect recommendations for better apps
The post: https://lemmy.ca/post/32877620
edit, while we’re at it we might as well offer an alternative app to people
Leading Recommendation from the comments
The leading recommendation seems to be Drip (bloodyhealth.gitlab.io)
Summarizing what people shared:
- accessible: it is on F-droid, Google Play, & iOS App Store
- does not allow any third-party tracking
- the project got support from “PrototypeFund & Germany’s Federal Ministry of Education and Research, the Superrr Lab and Mozilla”
- Listed features:
- “Your data, your choice: Everything you enter stays on your device”
- “Not another cute, pink app: drip is designed with gender inclusivity in mind.”
- “Your body is not a black box: drip is transparent in its calculations and encourages you to think for yourself.”
- “Track what you like: Just your period, or detect your fertility using the symptothermal method.”
Their Mastodon: https://mastodon.social/@dripapp
it’s quite silly imo. unlikely to accomplish much or anything at all. teaching people about free software like drip is way more likely to actually help people. it’s free, open source, and completely local.
edit: they even have a mastodon!
Not to mention that downloading that flow app will help them boost thier numbers, I doubt they’d care if men are using it as long as they can sell the data…
Would a bunch of users entering garbage data, with not all of them being totally obvious, make it harder to sell that data? Possibly.
It might take a while for thier customers to notice that the data is garbage, or they might develop a way to figure out what data is garbage and still sell other data gathered from the OS/sensors etc from users trying to poison the data.
Because moving people off Facebook messenger and over to Signal or WIRE instead has been so very effective.
You are right. We here know it. But we are a teeny tiny percentage compared to 340million.
Remember, inertia is a major driving force of humanity.
Drip seems to be the leading recommendation. I’ve edited the post with it so people seeing the meme also get the recommendation :)
So I just installed this right now after seeing this, and man this app has a lengthy initial startup process with dark patterns and everything. Now apparently I’m ovulating in two days. 🤭
I’m going to learn how to orgasm!
Is it FOSS? Or does it collect tons of data?
Oop, read the post better. Nevermind hahaha
I’m “abnormal” 🫨
So it’s not normal to have a 55 day cycle? Oh snap!
So I fucking hate that this is where my brain went, but my kneejerk reaction to this was: “If I do this, could it be used as evidence to charge my wife with the death of a nonexistent fetus?”
I live in the cousin-fuckingly-deep south where women are incubators and a long list of stereotypes. I could definitely see it argued in court - successfully - that an app like that was only used on my phone to try to conceal my wife’s data, and the data points to one of the ways we’ve criminalized pregnancy.
…and that’s thinking about what could happen here and now. Once Trump has had his way with our country, we’d probably just get deported to one of daddy Putin’s gulags or some shit.
I really fucking hate it here.
not to mention the reason why you’re only supposed to say the word “lawyer” to cops is they literally tell you: “ANYTHING you say CAN and WILL be used AGAINST YOU in a court of law.” That doesn’t mean “might or maybe” or “to help you.”
Track your nightly flatulence on a piece of paper too, and keep the same data on it that you put in the app. If it makes it to court claim the app was just a convient way to track other things, and let the courts discuss your farts.
Yeah, I would only do this if I lived alone or only with other males and had no SO/post-puberty daughters/close female friends.
You would think it wouldn’t be this easy, but given the incredible disconnect from reality on reporting late term abortion statistics, this could scramble data.
For those who don’t know, the raw statistic of late term abortions comes down to late term terminations via a procedure used in pre 20week months to end a pregnancy. There’s little difference in logging the data. Babies can die inside, even as you’re trying to attend your own baby shower, like with that young girl who recently tried to get help from 3 Texas emergency rooms, but instead died due to the late term corpse rotting in her uterus.
The procedure used to expel a stillbirth in the late term is an abortion. That is what pregnancy termination by procedure is: abortion. But the context of corpse removal is lost on political alarmists who don’t bother to do their own research on how/when the procedure is used in late term pregnancy, in favor of uneducated hysteria and the demonizing of women.
My point is, given how resolutely people have not delved into the context of this data regarding stillbirths, messing with menstrual trackers can and probably will work, provided you don’t limit yourself to Flo.
I don’t think this is likely to work tbh. I’m sure the app has enough device data to link the user with a broader data profile that would easily eliminate data from people that don’t actually have periods.
The data profiles people build on citizens aren’t limited to one data source, and emails/phone numbers/browser fingerprints/device details are all things that can be keyed between data sets to relate identities.
Fascist law enforcement can and would do this kind of thing to chase individuals. This kind of noise seems easy to filter out.
I don’t want to victim blame but if using an app is optional and it could get you in trouble with the law (regardless of how bad the law is), you should not use it.
Having said that, as a dev, please pollute data as much as possible.
Management needs to learn how valuable good data is and good data comes with proper consent (most people wouldn’t share their data if they could opt out).
These apps are very helpful for people who have irregular cycles or who are family planning. I relied heavily on a similar app in high school, because my monthlies weren’t monthly. I was able to share that data with my doctors to help better understand my body.
This really indicates a need for self-hosted solutions.
Absolute worst case you could always keep track of it as a raw text/markdown/excel/Libre calc/whatever your preference is. You’re not going to get any predictions or useful data out.
But it would at least provide a record for your doctor if need be. And as long as you encrypt the device you store it on, or the directory its stored in, it’s relatively safe to do so.
How does this work with non technical people?
Non technical people are not raccoons, they can use a text file.
Sometimes I feel like they are, or maybe I’m the raccoon but yes
The number of people I deal with at work that have no idea what a file is…
And forget about folders.
Write it down on paper or put it in a word document or excel spreadsheet (or FOSS equivalent if you don’t have Office 365).
From a medical perspective, a handwritten journal with dates and notes about the amount/consistency of the flow as well as associated symptoms would be the most useful. Having irregular periods that last for 3 days with very heavy bleeding would have a very different diagnostic approach than irregular periods that last 3 to 5 days with normal bleeding and horrible cramps.
A potentially good option if you’re on Android is putting it in your secure folder. It’s basically just a sub directory for all your files, notes, and pictures, but it an encrypted form.
So if you’re technical enough to understand jow to enter a password (most people), then you have an easy to use option. Just don’t forget your password, and don’t set it to something easy to crack. It’s the same rules for any other password.
I’m sure there are similar options for windows/mac/ios
But if you’re a more technical user, by all means it is in your interest to encrypt the whole thing.
Period tracking is a very good tool for understanding your health. Issues may be spotted very early in some cases.
If it’s required for preventative healthcare, the blame is solely on the exploitative app operators for any data safety concerns.
I’m doing my part!
These symptoms might actually be related to the 12k mountain trail run I did yesterday after work, and I’m pretty sure the bleeding is because I got scratched by a spiky bush, but you cannot be too careful fellas
Day 1065: still feeling fatigue. Poor sleep habits or longest period ever?
As with anything involving the complex bundles of systems in the human body, other issues can overlap and mask symptoms of a menstrual cycle, impending or otherwise.
Yes
I have a reminder app that randomizes reminders for a medical issue I’m dealing with.
Sounds like I’ll be dealing with two medical issues that app will require now.
Just curious, why randomize?
Why randomize Flo or why am I doing it for other reasons?
The latter, for other reasons
I am dealing with a mystery illness which has made it so that I cannot eat solid food. I’ve had it for well over a year now. The current theory is that it is ARFID, an eating disorder that has nothing to do with body image like most eating disorders.
Because I never feel hunger or thirst, I have had reminders on my phone to have nutrition (Ensure and soup mostly) and drink water.
The doctor that I am working with thinks that randomizing my feeding routines rather than having them at the same time every day, which I was doing, will be therapeutic. I’m also supposed to do a sort of wellness check and log when I feel hungry three times a day. The answer is always either ‘not hungry at all’ or, if I’m really stressed, ‘the concept of hunger is repulsive to me.’ I don’t want to say this isn’t working yet though. It’s only been a few weeks.
That sounds super interesting. Good luck.
Thanks!
Post text:
Dear men I need you to go download an app called “Flo” and start using it chaotically. Don’t ask anyone how to use it. Just use it. The more, the better. Let’s Christmas tree that data.
As a software developer who loves to screw the data and a person who will do ANYTHING can to protect women for the next 4 years, I am so excited to begin tracking my manstrual cycle
Good bot
people will do anything but search for an alternative
…how do you mean?
Obviously we’re not going to get everyone to download a FOSS period tracker, as nice as that would be – they’re already invested in the ones they’re using, and no doubt it will have features and usability improvements the FOSS one doesn’t, usually thanks to some network service that is fundamentally incompatible with the FOSS philosophy. That’s almost always how these things go.
We should definitely be telling more people about F-Droid, but let’s not get our hopes up. Socialism is about protecting everyone, even people who don’t share your views, even if those views are objectively correct.
We should definitely be telling more people about F-Droid, but let’s not get our hopes up
Accessibility (not being on FDroid only) was one of the things I was looking for when looking for recommendations. Thankfully the leading recommendation is on Google Play & iOS App Store :) I have edited the post above with more details
“Socialism is about leading horses to water whether they fucking drink or not.”
I mean, they dont like the APP because it collects data, but refuse to do one web search for an app that doesn’t, then complain on fucking twitter about privacy concerns??? seriously??
What’s the point of spamming one specific menstrual tracker / women’s health app? Lack of better hobbies? Or is there some controversy around the company behind it? Or just general state of freedom and surveillance in the USA?
The idea is that they’ll be used to track pregnancy and hurt people in certain states. Chaos will help the situation.
Computer databases are kind of purpose-built to organize a lot of (arbitrary) information. I seriously doubt this kind of chaos is going to make even the slightest difference. It’s probably just giving people some false sense of security while any information that’s stored in any cloud can still be retrieved. And effortlessly be matched to whomever they like to oppress. At least if it’s associated with some account, email or specific phone.
“A bunch of new accounts posting obviously worthless data joined about the same time. Disregard them.”
So you’re saying if a woman made an account during this time, and threw garbage data in, they’d disregard it and then a month later she could use it for real?
(Also you guys are hilarious about how quickly you can just ‘do that’ because I’ve never worked at any software company where the devs who made the initial code are even still at the company a year or two later.)
This is data analysis, not development. Yes you can just exclude the problem month, average the previous and next months, and her real data starts to contribute again. And yes you can do that regardless of who is writing code. Or even that the code was written by your company and not some other company you bought or seized data from.
probably won’t be hard to spot all the accounts that sign up en masse, send 3 data points then stop forever because they got bored or forgot.
Alright, sure. The company will rigorously dig through the data to exactly remove exactly the specific accounts that aren’t real and deftly deal with it, and it won’t be some intern with a weeks training in paper docs from three years ago. No, it’ll be people who will know to do exactly those things. And the data you’re scraping to sell, well, no-one will mind you splicing out data you claim isn’t real and was fake, no they’ll be fine with that. Then when that intern is gone–and they didn’t log anything because they were never taught to–and the new intern arrives, they’ll know to continue exactly where they should, and at no point will anyone fuck up the dates, times, or additions from previous months. At each and every stage exactly what has to happen will happen, and no code changes, updates, or manager-directives will change any of these parts in any way. The addition of anywhere from dozens to hundreds to even tens of thousands of new accounts will be easy to deal with, because this has all been prepared ahead of time, and will immediately be dealt with. It won’t take weeks of meetings on how to tackle it, by whom, and what to push back - because they use waterfall/agile, and it’s a foolproof system where you don’t just punt things forward, you deliberately and delicately lay out each and every change that will now take place mixed with the 2 years that have already been planned out.
Absolutely everything will be covered and not a single thing will get through, and they’ll carefully and easily parse through the data with zero issues on the demand of a very competent government that doesn’t show any signs of issue whatsoever.
Nah they’ll just say “weird. Guys, exclude November, it’s an outlier”.
I’m willing to bet it uses something resembling an SQL database on the back end, so ignoring or deleting data or entire user accounts that signed up in November 2024 should be a matter of a query or two.
I would also like to point out that, much like the Republicans, you’re painting your enemy as both dangerously competent and hilariously inept, whichever is most convenient at the moment. “They have a database of menstrual data, they can use data science and pattern analysis to detect changes in a woman’s reproductive cycle and use that information to make decisions to harm her!” minutes later App developers are rock chewing morons, there’s no way they could detect a pattern of strange data entering their database all at once, figure out what it is possibly by googling the name of their app and finding a Tumblr post about polluting the app, and then cancel those suspicious accounts."
The tiny percentage of users of these apps doing this will have their outlier data completely ignored. Colossal waste of time and energy.
A government hunting illegal abortions would only care about data that shows signs of pregnancy followed by early termination, random data will never match those criteria and as such is utterly useless.
Like not having a period for 4 months, then having a period again. You’re expecting legislature and law enforcement to actually know science things.
Also, Google/Apple metrics already know if you’re a boy or girl based on soooo much other data and trackers, that it’s completely trivial for this company or any other company to just filter out any data being reported by a male.
Clearly gotta start listening to truecrime podcasts and let some young kids muck up your YouTube algorithm and they won’t know anymore what your gender is
Fuck it, download all of them.
There was an IT Crowd episode on the Manstrual Cycle
Oh that’s what I was remembering! Aunt Irma
This is the scummiest app I’ve ever downloaded.
Can you elaborate? my wife uses it, I told her about Drip and other opensource alternatives but I don’t know where “scummiest” comes from
Well, it depends on what you want out of it and, to be fair, i am not a period-haver.
That being said there is so, so much tracking it is doing to give you data and recommendations. While getting started it felt positively gross the amount fo personal questions it was asking. Why is all that necessary? Again, it depends if you want whatever information it is giving you.
But, even on top of that, wasn’t it proven that the app was selling data to interested parties to be used for nedarious reasons? That’s why we’re even doing this whole men-should-sign-up-to-feed-it-bullshit-and-ruin-the-data in the first place.
Even though, as another user said: it likely wouldnt actually do anything.While getting started it felt positively gross the amount fo personal questions it was asking. Why is all that necessary?
Hi. Occasional period haver here. With all due respect, it’s possible that since the context is the menstrual cycle, questions that seem irrelevant to you (as a not-period-haver) might actually be important for the typical end user (period-havers.) Things like age, weight, diet, activity level, and more can all play a role in how someone’s period affects them. But I have no plans to download this, or any other tracker app, so I can’t independently determine the extent to which that’s the case.
Could anyone who signed up provide some specific question examples?
If we go by the wikipedia page, no, apparently they never did sell data to third parties, although there were allegations at some point. But perhaps wikipedia isn’t the most reliable on this particular subject or is out of date
(Edit: Replied to the wrong post. Sorry!)
Things you would f consider can affect menstrual cycles. Malnutrition. Thyroid issues. The body is one giant interaction effect.
I have several old Android phones sitting in a drawer. They’ve just been given a glorious purpose.
Multiple users ☺️ on each.
The Shelter app (on F-droid) gives you simple access to Android work profiles, allowing you to install multiple copies of apps.
Isn’t it built in now? I have that natively.
To be honest, I don’t completely know. I never used work profiles before Shelter, so I’m not 100% sure.
Shelter uses the Work Profile. With android 15 you can enable Private Space, which is about the same, for a third instance of an app. Work profile requires an app that manages it like Shelter, private space just works.
AfaIk, Shelter is using the built in work profile of Android, as not every UI/ vendor has made it available to the users. (There is no visible button or option in the settings menu.)
E.g. Samsung smartphones have a “work mode”, but the last time I’ve used it (It may be different in current models), it only allowed for second accounts of selected apps like WhatsApp and hence, was a crippled implentation of the Android feature. My Android 11 Samsung tablet has complete multi user support, not only “work mode”.If you are required to install something like InTune by your company, that’s what controls what apps you can install in Work mode. It’s a good trade off because it enforces good separation for them - clipboard is blocked between profiles, data too - but also for me. One little toggle and those apps and the profile are disabled entirely until I care again tomorrow.
I am gonna get it.
Suggestion: log your hours gaming instead.
So 16 to 20 hours?
I hope you mean per day with those numbers.
Yes, and those are on a slow day, too.
Edit. Doh. I misread as “i don’t get it” lol. I’m leaving it anyway for anyone who needs an explanation.
Trump won the US election. The republican plan for trumps presidency is project 2025. In project 2025 they treat women as third class citizens (men are first and fetuses are second). Of the many plans for women, project 2025 aims to use data to identify pregnant women in order to ensure fetuses aren’t aborted. Under project 2025 abortion is illegal, and miscarriages are treated as an abortion until proven that it was a natural miscarriage. The republican party has already started approaching period tracking apps for data, and this post is suggesting to pollute the data in period tracking apps with the idea of making it harder to identify missed periods due to pregnancy.
On a more practical note, however, individual’s tracking their periods should be using open source software to track periods instead to prevent a company from giving away your data.
Done. If only I could script it…
