Tldr: The media attacked him, turned him into a symbol of unhappiness.
America isn’t doing so great. Unemployment is high, inflation is spiraling out of control, wild habitats are being bulldozed, hell it’s getting hard to put food on the table.
I think even lemmy can agree that the economy isn’t doing so well.
Back in the 80s, we had factories, with unions. NAFTA decided that America should send most of our factories to Mexico and beyond. Immigration went up, importing cheap labor, basically scabs.
The Democrats, who claimed to be for the common worker, made a farce of it, saying “they took our jobs” was racist. And you know what, those jobs weren’t stolen, there were given away.
Every year, year after year, it gets worse. Politicians on both sides are lying to our faces and won’t do jack shit to bring in tariffs or lower immigration.
Then comes Trump. He’s a fucking scumbag just like every other politician, but at least he attempts to pander to the millions affected. And then the media started attacking him.
This just made him look like someone who might actually be on our side. Sure, he might fuck over every other country, but God damn it, America comes first, not Mexico, not China, not the EU, America comes first.
I am going out on a limb and say you would vote for Trump?
In 2016 I did. In 2020, I abstained, both candidates were shit
Racism. Christian extremism. Both not exclusive to themselves. Both have felt ignored and feed on the the thoughts of being victims due to their “unpopular” beliefs. There is much more to this subject but this is the best I can simplify it.
They’re terrified of being treated the same way they treat minorities and women
Don’t underestimate the sexism (particularly gamergate 4chan incels).
Gamergate essentially created and unified the modern alt-right as we see it today, it should absolutely be in consideration towards modern political discourse.
It’s essentially these two things. And it’s easy to see from any political map that these divides line up really well along rural vs urban areas. People who live in cities have learned how to live together and tolerate each other (even if they don’t necessarily like each other). People in rural areas think of themselves as the ‘backbone’ of the country because or our early agrarian and later industrial development as a country. And in many ways, they really were. Farmers, miners, factory workers, etc.
But time has left them behind with factory farms, overseas production, robot factories, renewable energy, etc. They blame “the other” for their problems. The “other” or “the enemy” in their minds is often “big city” people with darker skin, or “academic pinheads” or “government bureaucrats” or basically anyone but themselves. To them, hearing news about something like climate change or same sex marriage is an “attack on their way of life and traditional values”. They haven’t learned how to adapt or take proper stock of their situation. They only know how to lash out at “the other”.
If rural people would calm the fuck down and gain some perspective, they could see that they have a lot in common with working people in urban areas. For example, we’re all being fucked over by greedy corporations and a tiny number of people with way too much money and power. But those same powerful elites do a masterful job of pitting all of us working class slobs against each other. This both amuses them and keeps us divided so we don’t build the guillotines. The country being ever on the brink of civil war is very much intentional.
And of course there are guys like Steve Bannon, who is like a comic book villain. Guys like that really do want to see it all burn to the ground so it can be rebooted in some fantasy world where “bitter old white males like me rule again”.
Small towns, small minds.
I’m interested to see if this rural/urban divide is going to shift in the future. With the ballooning cost of real estate and the rise of remote work, a lot of urban liberals are moving to more rural areas.
There’s certainly a group of people that enjoy city life, but a lot of people (myself included) just want some peace and quiet and only lived in or near cities to be close to work.
People are interesting. People produce culture. Cities are where people are. Cities are always going to be more interesting and more cultural.
You want to start a band in nowhere, Utah? Ok, well, you’re going to have a lot fewer people interested in joining or watching than a city of any size.
Some stuff might move online. But I’m reminded of an interview I read during the pandemic. Someone was asked “what can I do at an in person party I can’t do online?”. The other person replied, “fuck people.” So there’s that. In-person social stuff matters.
So like yeah I guess it might be cheaper but it’s probably going to be less interesting just because there’s fewer people around.
If you feel that way, then you probably should live in a city. Some people prefer city life; there’s nothing wrong with that, but it’s not for everyone. I have no desire to be around other people, and the “cultural” aspect of urban living holds no interest to me. I get enough human interaction through work. At home, I want to be un-bothered by other people and go about my business in solitude.
I do live in a city and wouldn’t have it any other way.
You don’t consume movies books television music art? Variety of food?
I recognize that some people want to be hermits but that makes me uneasy. But like, whatever, it takes all kinds I guess. Not a fan of subsidizing anti social behavior though. Lots of roads and highways and shipping and such to support people living in isolation.
I think you might be misunderstanding what I’m trying to say. I’m not discounting the value of human culture. I enjoy various types of art, and I am grateful for the people who produce it.
What doesn’t interest me in the slightest is urban “culture.” By that I mean going to restaurants, attending parties, seeing live music, walking to the corner pub, etc. I haven’t done any of these things in years, and I’m happy. If I discover a musician I like, I’m going to spend some money and buy their record, but I don’t need to be surrounded by a crowd of people listening to them live.
You mention the term “anti-social behavior,” but that doesn’t describe everyone who’d rather live in a rural area than a city. Some of us just like our peace and quiet. As far as subsidizing roads and shipping to rural areas, you like to eat, right? Where do you think the food came from? You live in a house or an apartment, right? Where did the wood, concrete, and raw materials come from? A huge amount of agriculture and production comes from rural areas, and it’s always going to be necessary to have roads and infrastructure to support this. The fact that I live in the same area that supplied your food doesn’t mean that your tax dollars are paying for roads solely so that I can drive on them.
I understand that people like you enjoy the busy life of a city and that you can legitimately take advantage of what a city offers. I’m not like that. Large gatherings of people don’t make me happy; they just make me want to leave. My original argument was that a lot of people live in cities because they have to for work. Some of them, like you, live in cities because it makes them happy. For the people that live in urban areas because they have to, I was speculating that many of them might move to more rural areas given the option. I’m not trying to shit on your lifestyle (although I do have strong negative opinions about bicycles on roadways), and I would hope that you extend the same courtesy. Life is short, and in a perfect world, everyone could live in a place that they enjoy.
The far right have been stoking hate and resentment for decades. But before Trump they always tried to maintain an air of respectability as well as plausible deniability. Then came Trump and threw all that out of the window. Also he has a talent to spout any nonsense with utter conviction. That is perceived as authenticity by the people who feel left out by the political process and that are simply too dumb to understand any nuanced discussion.
After reading of what you wrote reminds me of Hitler when we learned in grade school. So if he gets elected American’s a pretty fucked.?
Have a gander at project 2025 if you want to know what that future looks like.
I and hate to admit it have read it all. And I never thought I would say it but one book made me feel unclean, dirty, and really question America so much I may find work elsewhere.
Yep, he’s literally Hitler, just without the mass genocide (yet).
We’ve always wondered how so many people followed Hitler, now we know
A large amount of angry, angry disillusioned people. I’m culturally close enough to understand a bit, if not 100% of it. There’s been a lot of cultural change really fast in the West, and increasingly bad economic conditions for the poor, rural and/or uneducated at the same time. As a result, a bubble of people who are completely reactionary and want to tear down the establishment has formed. Trump just managed to mobilize them.
The part I don’t really get is the appeal of the guy himself. It’s like they want to inflict him on the people they’re angry at, as if he’s a weapon and not a leader.
They do. They can’t lash out directly, so they are him as a legal way to do so indirectly.
They have to know it’s them next, right? I mean, clearly not, but that’s where I can’t mentally “be” them anymore. The rest is relatable, if mean.
Yeah, lot of bitterness from perceived left wing elitism that they feel derided them and marginalized them, Trump is not a political platform, it’s just resentment.
As fascism always is.
They could have picked someone who’s not transparently a crayon-eating moron, though…
I don’t think fascism is capable of producing competent longterm leadership. Like the ideology preselects for loyalty above all, it’s rabidly anti-intellectual and scorns anyone perceived as being an intellectual elitist. It’s purely emotion driven and requires ever escalating emotional rhetoric to keep the based angry at external all-powerfully weak enemies (lazy mexicans stealing your jobs, sneaky jewish bankers crashed the entire economy, thuggish gangbangers in the inner city are criminal masterminds responsible for all the drugs flowing through rural communities who would overrun everything if they were smart enough to unify, take your pick of contradictory scapegoat.)
That’s not to say incompetence means harmlessness, there’s a lot of blood that has been spilled throughout history due to incompetence.
Well, they certainly got straight to the point this time. The last time it took a world war before they really started to shit the bed. I’m grateful, if confused.
Well… were not on the other side of this yet. Were still in the sort of early 1930s Germany era where the real problems people face haven’t gotten all that much better, and the fascists have made many decently successful smaller attempts at power but haven’t quite succeeded in that big push for power. like the stuff that is planned in project 2025.
Yes, fingers crossed Kamala wins and we get another 4 years, at least (us in the rest of the world included).
Considering that both Mussolini and Hitler were also incompetent fucking morons, it’s no surprise that modern fascists also pick leaders like them.
They’re sending their best.
They were absolute geniuses compared to Trump, and put on a far more convincing show of honesty - particularly Hitler, with his faux-compassionate warmups and vegetarianism. Mussolini had an actual career as an intellectual before he was famous. Hitler sounds kind of intellectually average.
Mussolini had an actual career as an intellectual
Well, he certainly considered himself to be an intellectual. Whether he actually was one is another matter entirely
He made an actual living as a newspaper editor, and got some good reviews according to Wikipedia, so apparently he convinced other people too. At the very least, he could pass.
Trump represents modern conservatism, but he himself? I’m not sure he actually stands for a whole lot beyond his own orange bubble.
He’s mostly a blank slate (philosophically and intellectually) that the people around him can use to get their agendas enacted. He surrounds himself with sycophants and bootlickers, so as long as they promise him wealth and power, he is content to parrot the talking points he’s given.
Steven Miller, Steve Bannon, Alex Jones, and all the others…those are the real evil motherfuckers. When Trump is out of the picture, they’ll find some other half-wit to puppet. The fight won’t end when one figurehead fades in to history.
idk, just one dude’s thoughts.
(Just to be clear, none of that absolves him of the real damage he’s done. Malicious indifference is still malicious.)
I suspect one of them would directly take his place, actually. Trump is kind of an anomaly in not having redeeming qualities himself, if you look around the world and through history.
It’s like they want to inflict him on the people they’re angry at, as if he’s a weapon
This completely nails it. Trump’s lack of a filter and eagerness to pick fights makes him look like a fearless champion for his followers. He isn’t going to pull punches or compromise with anyone.
A very conservative relative of mine likened supporting Trump to hiring a sleazy but effective lawyer: his personality and methods are irrelevant; you hired him to achieve specific results and the only thing that matters is his ability to achieve those results. If it makes the opposition scream then that’s just added entertainment.
What I don’t get is he had four years already to achieve results and all he did was make the country worse off, but somehow everyone seems to have forgotten that 😭
Yes, but he hurt the right people. Or at least put on a show of doing it, somehow Mexico got out of USMCA just fine.
American politics has been described as a two party system, but it is really a one and a half party system. One party creates a winning political coalition while the minority party has to deal with the remains. Sometimes the minority party wins major elections, but it is generally rare.
There are two ways the parties shift or reorganize.
The first is when one party collapses. Most recent examples were Republicans in 1932 and Democrats in 1968. The majority party messes up so much that it is blatantly apparent that they aren’t going to win elections any more and the transfer of power is rather peaceful.
The second is due to mainly demographic change as the majoriry party becomes the minority party. This is generally more risky for democracies as the shift is gradual and there isn’t a firm reason parties to switch. There is also more electoral chaos as votes are a lot closer.
One example was the Election of 1800, where Southern and Westward expansion in the country had led Jefferson and Burr to beat Adams, but then there was a stalemate on who would be picked. While a political solution was found in the end, militias were being drawn up and there was a growing threat of civil war.
The second example was the Civil War. While Lincoln won a minority of votes, it was apparent that future elections would likely be won by the party of thr North due to increasing immigration.
It seems like Trump is tapping into this demographic fear. More educated voters vote Democratic and the populace is becoming more educated. Outside of Florida, it appears that voters are choosing to move to Republican Sun belt states and voting Democrat. What was thought of as a party collapse in 2008 is turning out to be a demographic shift instead. So, the former dominant party is fighting back to delay or prevent the shift.
Fear and lies.
Fascism.
See, all the really open minded citizens in America were just so happy when the country elected a black guy as president that they just had to go out and share that joy with the rest of the world!
His televised narcissistic collapse (now in it’s 13th year) has emboldened every Archie Bunker wannabe, vacuous contrarian, all the racist chucklefucks, and miscellaneous shitstains the country has to offer. The rest of the people are sick and tired of having their empathy and compassion mocked and derided, their hopes and dreams dashed, and their future turned into nightmare fuel.
Yes, he was always a privileged asshole devoid of human compassion or understanding, but this is the moment at the WHCD on 4/30/2011 where he broke beyond repair: https://v.redd.it/sk0jqm81r5kd1
every Archie Bunker wannabe, vacuous contrarian, all the racist chucklefucks, and miscellaneous shitstains the country has to offer. The rest of the people are sick and tired of having their empathy and compassion mocked and derided, their hopes and dreams dashed
I couldn’t help but to read this in the most tired, South London accent ever.
Half the population is below average IQ and will listen to whoever screams the loudest. That’s a gross simplification but basically what’s going on. People with low IQ do not have logical reasoning.
My thinking is this:
- 1/3 of people are actually stupid
- 1/3 of people are good
- 1/3 of people are evil
Trump taps into dumb and evil.
Besides coming across as iamverysmart, that doesn’t match the actual demographics. Somehow, low-IQ people are all born poor, white, male and decades ago? You could make the argument for the tendency to be uneducated, but even that’s not a perfect correlation with raw intelligence.
I’m not sure what your argument is. I’m not saying all dumb people are poor. Absolutely not the case. There are plenty of absolute morons who are rich that support Trump. I literally never made any correlation claims about wealth?
Also I’m not talking about myself at all so idk why you took this as me saying i am very smart? Weird take…
Most Trump supporters are white, old, uneducated, male and/or poor. If Trump supporters are all dumb, there must be a strong correlation between these things and being dumb, statistically speaking.
In fact, Trump supporters may skew a little less intelligent, but there’s also plenty that are smart. (And I won’t even get into the validity of IQ as a valid measure of intelligence)
If you read my original comment, I said it was a gross simplification. I know how nuanced this is.
A simplification has to resemble the whole truth, don’t try to play like you didn’t mean it.
I didn’t say I didn’t mean it. Dang you’re really on some laser focused griefing today aren’t you
people are realizing that the American dream was a lie and they don’t want to believe that the people they voted for all along are the ones who caused it
The funny thing is it used to kind of work for a lot of small businesses and poor people in general. It sucked but you could do it. Only true visionaries like hunter s Thompson and Carlin really understood that the system was rotten before it all started to fall apart.
It’s called the American dream, because you’d have to be asleep to believe it.
no, if you were a white middle class boomer born between 1945 & 1970ish who managed not to go to vietnam, you got to live the American dream. then we methodically voted for the people who stripped away all of the policies that made it possible
Hey, my boomer dad got to be a slave soldier AND live the dream.
Because his dad was a dentist and he could afford to pay for college after Uncle Sam, it turns out, got him shot twice, blown up once, and gave him leukemia.
But at least Vietnam doesn’t have universal healthcare.
actually 87% of the Vietnamese population are covered by social health insurance (as of 2018)
I know, I’m referring to the fact that all that got done to him to defend a fascist state against Big Scary Communist Ho Chi Minh who actually wanted to be a US Ally against Chinese influence in Asia.
And then they didn’t even fucking win. Which was probably good, but still.
Hello, fellow Carlin-ist.
It’s a big club, and you ain’t in it…or, you are in it if we’re talking about carlinists as a club.
The Carlinist club has no member status in the America club, unfortunately.
The fear of being unable to protect one’s self and family as one ages.
Among other factors, I think humans have a certain instinctive drive: when there’s a broad sense of social malaise—when lots of people feel there’s something wrong with their social institutions, but there’s no consensus on how to remedy it—they gravitate toward whatever thing the social establishment seems most afraid of, because in our deep history that’s been an effective way to break out of dangerous institutional stasis.
Depending on the social establishment at the time, that anti-establishment movement could take many forms—religious, ideological, nationalistic, etc. So I think Trumpism is an inevitable reaction to the rise of the neoliberal establishment under Clinton and the Bushes: the underlying cause of the neoliberal malaise is economic, but the most visible social anxieties are over racism, sexism, and other social factors. So that creates a feedback loop of growing fear that attracts those feeling a general sense of discontent.
As long as you only get the opinions of people who don’t support Trump, you’ll never understand this.
How do you mean?
I get that you’re implying that people who don’t support Trump can’t know what goes on in a Trump supporters head or understand the movement (not true).
But if you can’t explain it yourself then you simply can’t know what you’re talking about, you don’t even understand what it is that they’ll never understand! How would you be able to know if they are able to understand or not!?
No, people who don’t support Trump are perfectly capable of understanding Trump supporters’ reasons.
It’s just that they don’t, and don’t try to either.
Yeah, but you haven’t explained it either in two posts now which says to me that you don’t know and you’re just being contrarian.
I’m not a Trump supporter
I think the current economic and political system is failing a vast majority of Americans and like other authoritarian demagogues in the past, Trump misattributes that problem in ways that resonate with the bigotry and racism that exists in American culture.
America has had a long history of nationalism and exploitation that leaves it ripe for cherishing those values and minimizing critical thinking about current structures and questioning how those really only benefit the rich and powerful.
I think the current economic and political system is failing a vast majority of Americans and like other authoritarian demagogues in the past, Trump misattributes that problem in ways that resonate with the bigotry and racism that exists in American culture.
You just explained in one sentence what I bumbled my way through in four paragraphs. Well written, my friend.
