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cross-posted from: https://lemmy.world/post/24657192
Summary
In a virtual speech at the World Economic Forum, Trump suggested Canada could become a U.S. state to avoid his proposed tariffs on imports.
The remark elicited gasps from the audience.
Trump claimed the U.S. does not need Canadian lumber, energy, or vehicles, vastly overstating the trade deficit between the two nations.
He reiterated his intention to impose tariffs, potentially as high as 25%, on imports from Canada and Mexico starting February 1.
Economists warn such tariffs would raise prices for U.S. consumers.
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Canada is avoiding Trump’s tariffs by not becoming a state.
They are not paying the tariffs, american people do. So by joining the US they would start paying all the tariffs that Trump is putting on China’s products, European products …
Why do people think that happens? It does not happen. 90% of the tariffs will be absorbed by Canadian companies trying to keep up sales to the US because there’s nowhere else to go, and even if they sell elsewhere, it’ll be discounted that much to other countries because of the general laws of supply and demand.
The only way, and it’s one that we have nothing in place to effect, is to mark prices as of the tariff date and to enact an export tariff for the amount of the sale under the price set point. That would highly discourage discounting sales and pretty much just cut them off since, in the case of products made or produced in the US, it would be competing with local products at 125% of the local price.
No, that’s called “dumping” and is against compliance of WTO rules, which would then allow the importing country to raise more taxes as anti-dumping measures.
This is from a US Gov website explaining what that is
The importer, not the exporter pays tariffs. Aka Canada pays nothing, things made in Canada have an extra tax attached to them when they cross the boarder into the us, paid by Walmart or whomever ordered the goods
Yes, but in the real world, while the importer pays the tariff, they’ve taken a discount on cost from their supplier in order to compete with local goods that aren’t tariffed. That’s why no country wants tariffs applied to their imports. Its almost like governments understand how this works.
Ummm no.
In the real world consumers ultimately end up paying the tariffs.
Domestic suppliers have a tendency to raise prices is response to increased demand and decrease competition from imports.
When Trump implemented a tariff on Washing Machines in 2018 during his first term. The price of imported washing machines went up, the price of domestic washing machines went up, the price of dryers… which weren’t tariffed went up.
Eventually it did led to more washing machines and dryers being manufactured domestically. Which did lead to a small increase manufacturing in jobs. But it was a net loss for the consumers.
Tariffs function as a flat tax on goods. Like all flat taxes this benefits the wealthy and hurts poor and the working class.
Well, when it’s been in place and the Canadian economy is in free fall, you can come here and tell me how wrong I and all the governments were about how this works. I’m sure it’ll go totally different than the softwood lumber tariffs that shut down the forestry industry in BC for a decade.
Here’s the Canadian forest industry take on tariffs. Mostly borne by Canadian producers:
https://forestresources.org/2024/12/19/a-discussion-around-tariffs-on-cdn-lumber/
I’m confused friend.
The article you linked to says:
… Canadian lumber producers would not be able to absorb this, the price of lumber will adjust upwards ….
Is that not, quite literally, a direct contradiction of your earlier statement that:
90% of the tariffs will be absorbed by Canadian companies
And if the price increases, is that not the consumer paying the tariffs?
I’m out of energy for this.
You’re right, we should just ignore it because it’ll only affect the USians. Maybe we lobby them to make it 50% so it punishes them more. It’ll all be perfectly fine here.
Why people keep listening to what that being says? Just respond to his actions, anthing else is useless…
I somewhat agree with your point but after years of him saying he would do fucked up shit and then him doing a lot of it, it helps to be prepared for his intentions as they manifest into actions in many cases.
My point goes mostly to international leaders or representative people that over-react to his words and then the media look to amplify it by doing it a “new”: part of his strategy is this shit bombing upon saturation, so it buffers a space of allowance of shit actions in the public opinion that otherwise would have suffered of even more rejection if done without this probing, confusing and dragging resources in the meantime to attend this… which in the end will not matter how are they answered, prevented or reacted, he will push anyway in that direction, so I would give zero weight to all that diarrhea, shit will come willing it or not since he has the power to do it, accepting any kind of conversation with someone like that is playing a rigged game and lose terrain… why accept his ability to an exchange of opinion in the first place? why respond/listen to him? He behaves like the strongest bully, the corresponding treatment is required… join on isolating him, he will not make it easy though. This is my opinion…
There is no actual fentanyl or immigration basis for tariffs on Canada. Just submit to less representation than California, and help absorb large US debt with little in return for it.
There’s no basis for tariffs on Mexico either.
Really there is no basis for any tariffs, the richest nation in the world putting tariffs on other nations products because they can’t keep up is embarrassing.
Just. You know…
become a state.
What about the provinces within Canada? Are they gonna all merge to become one US megastate?
All I know is that Quebec would never allow that
All hail GiGa Montana
Finally, Hannah Montana!
Canada is already a state… a SOVEREIGN state.
If’n he can point to it on a map
I mean honestly, he’s just a giant douche canoe that accurately reflects the level of intelligence and emotional maturity that the most of his fucking deplorable Nazi base is. There’s nothing he’s here said that isn’t what his moronic base says on a daily basis and is more or less a accurate representation of America and Americans by large.
America is a nation of idiots.
I want to see Canada put out an open offer for immediate welcome, territoriship, and instant citizenship for any state along the border that votes to join Canada.
Democracy is demagogue-prone. That’s a disease to which electoral systems are vulnerable. Yet demagogues are easy to identify. They gesture a lot and speak with pulpit rhythms, using words that ring of religious fervor and god-fearing sincerity.
The practice can always be detected by anyone who learns the signs: Repetition. Great attempts to keep your attention on words. You must pay no attention to words. Watch what the person does. That way you learn the motives.
They create a system where most people are dissatisfied, vaguely or deeply. This builds up widespread feelings of vindictive anger. Then they supply targets for that anger as they need them—as distraction. Don’t give time to question.
They bury mistakes in more laws. Traffic in illusion. Bullring tactics. Wave the pretty cape. People will charge it and be confused when there’s no matador behind the thing. That dulls the electorate just as it dulls the bull.
Fewer people use their vote intelligently next time.
There appears to be a rule of nature that says it’s almost impossible for self-serving groups to act enlightened, flowing with the forces of life, adjusting your actions that life may continue. With the greatest amount of happiness for the greatest number, of course.
The risks of democracy and how to prevent them paraphrased from Dune.
Apparent everywhere, Trump is just one in this path of centuries.
Focus on actions, not promises, and unite against inequality and division. Systems should be simple, transparent, and work for everyone, not just the wealthy or powerful. Educating and organizing workers, holding leaders accountable, and building solidarity across all groups are essential for achieving fairness. Lasting change comes from addressing root causes, not chasing temporary fixes.
Maybe the next century will show results somewhere.
Oh, boy, what you’ve got going on looks like so much fun, how could we want to miss out?
<sigh> Four more years of this shit. But oh well, it’s worth it if it spared a few people of superior moral integrity from compromising their principles to vote for Harris when she didn’t measure up to their requirements and the Democrats didn’t run a good enough campaign and besides it was kind of cold that day and it would have meant putting on pants.
I think it comes to to a lot more than that, bud. I don’t agree with the 13 million that didn’t vote but I understand their frustration.
I shared their frustration myself, but I realized stopping Trump was more important in the long run. Too bad not enough others did - he hardly won any states by more than 200k.
Well… and then there’s the now published interference with the voting machines in the swing states that Harris did nothing about. I almost wonder if those 13 million would have come out, would it even have mattered? I understand SCOTUS would’ve said ok so what? But even a fucking requested recount to show there was fuckery going on would’ve at least been the documentation we needed to see to move ahead down the road.
The only one I’m aware of is in Michigan, where 3 Trump allies are now charged with tampering or planning to tamper with voting machines, and that case is moving forward.
Yea. Surprised it isn’t bigger news at least in the social media circles. There was this post on Jan 20th here: https://sh.itjust.works/post/31381451. Which lead me to read this letter a bunch of high level security officials sent to Harris … which apparently fell on dead ears, here: https://freespeechforpeople.org/wp-content/uploads/2024/11/letter-to-vp-harris-111324-1.pdf … and as much as I fucking hate conspiracy theories and the people behind them, there was this data analyst who made an extremely compelling data backed argument here: https://youtu.be/QDWwLDejg8Y?si=y_ckplWhEzun8nvq
Thanks for those links - the Nathan guy especially makes a lot of compelling points, even though they still could just be results defying polls. I don’t think the lack of news about this implies a lack of interest or that nobody is doing anything. If there is any substance to the vote swap idea I’m sure something will be uncovered, as anything on this scale would leave a lot of loose ends.
Why are you okay with your fellow Americans being unrepresented in the voting booth?
Are you working to replace First past the post voting in your state? People should be free to vote for those they deem best, while still counting their vote against those they don’t want in office.
We don’t need to wait for a miracle from congress. How we vote us controlled at the state level. Alaska has already done away with FPTP voting. Alaskan Republicans were so upset that Ranked Choice voting kept Sarah Palin out of office they offered up a referendum to go back to FPTP voting. The people of Alaska voted to keep it
Why do you want to use the same voting system republicans prefer? Do you support democracy? Or do you get off on telling people how to vote?
Videos on alternative voting systems
First Past The Post voting (What most states use now)
Videos on alternative electoral systems we can try out.
That is a huge leap of logic from the parent comment. They sarcastically said how happy they were that some people got the satisfaction of staying home and not voting, and you took that to mean they don’t support democracy?
I’m Canadian, and Justin Trudeau, our current (for a few more weeks) Prime Minister, campaigned in 2015 that it would be Canada’s last election with FPTP. They put a committee together that made some recommendations, but the government untimately ignored those recommendations, said it was too hard, and nothing changed. (Yes, that’s an incredibly simplistic take, don’t @ me).
FPTP benefits them. The Liberals won a majority of seats with only 40% of the popular vote. Large parties tend to benefit from FPTP because it discourages minority and fringe votes. So while I’m sure you’re right that the Republicans prefer FPTP, I’d bet a shiny Canadian dollar (or about 0.69USD) that the Democrats also prefer FPTP.
Feel free to express (and explain) your opinion that some people are unrepresented, but why are you okay with pretending that’s my opinion and asking me to defend it? Millions of people who voted for Biden in 2020 refused to vote at all in 2024 because the Democratic Party hadn’t given them a candidate they liked. More than enough to defeat Trump, but that wasn’t important enough for them to step off their moral high ground, and now here we are.
I personally think this is bravado to negotiate something more realistic, although if he really wanted to it’s unlikely Canada would resist.
As a Canadian, fuck you Trump. Canada will never be a US state. Not sorry.
As they say in Canada, they’re not having Nunavut these hosers, eh ?
Its truedeau. (Its a pun)
It’s bad enough being one of those states now, and I’m in one of the good ones.
If it goes down I’m just gonna scoot up north and fight on your side for Canadian citizenship.
I wonder how many would lol
A lot more than the Rs would think.
I hope so! I live pretty close to the border so this is all a bit surreal
It is for us too.
Solidarity forever, fellow worker ✊️
That’s a really good idea! I’m about 5-8 hours from the Canadian boarder but I will not fight for a fascist country. I’ll either join the other side or join a resistance here.
I’m about 4 hrs from the border but could easily make that shorter in an emergency! Combat veteran as well.
I’m a vet also. Never felt the need for a gun as a civilian, but November changed that for me.
I got a couple last summer because I knew it’d be a shitstorm regardless of who won.
Why did November change that for you? What has actually increased your need for a gun since then?
A tyrannical government?
Arm the proletariat?
The amount of Americans visiting Australia who assume people here would want to live in America instead given the option was astounding to me.
Just the coffee quality is enough reason not to. 🤣
