Well, they just lost some customers…
Amazing. Let’s truly take it from their point of view.
The only people who care about this plugin are HomeAssistant users, so a very small subset. Those users then either
A) Already own the product, and thus are not going to cost them anything because they already bought it or B) Home Assistant users who are in the market for their product, and from experience will only buy a product if there’s an HA plugin.
In what way are they losing “millions” to these 2 groups again?
I have literally made decisions on purchases like vehicles on if they have a home assistant plugin or not. For HomeAssitant users it’s one of the largest factors.
I’m in nearly B as I usually only buy things with proper protocols, e.g Zigbee, that might not need a dedicated plugin. So obviously Haier is now a company I won’t buy anything from and will actively not recommend to anything who cares about my opinion on IoT.
Those users don’t send usage data back to Haier that they can then sell to other companies
Yes, but without the plug in, they wouldn’t buy the product to give the data. It’s circulat logic on their part.
Unless they already bought it and now have to either throw it away or start using the (presumably) shitty app.
The app already exists, so anyone who has it, will keep it.
Anyone in the market to purchase will now avoid. Their suit will cost more sales than the app, which may have actually generated sales by existing.
I bet they’re using data sales to subsidize sales of the devices.
Subsidize? Oh sweetheart, that’s not happening - that’s just more profit! Silly goose!
that, and I can imagine they fear a giant wave of support tickets from people using HA and having problems
If they have a good support team they already have a form letter for “you are using this product in an unsupported way” and it takes about 30 seconds to process them.
And let’s be honest, someone with the tech knowhow to set up home assistant isn’t going to ask Haier for help
Yea I don’t really contact a company unless someone on a forum specifically says that’s the best way to resolve the issue (ex. Account authentication related bugs). Either that or it’s specifically related to my purchase
Pretty sure that’s the case for my less tech-savvy friends and family too
It depends. My HVAC controller is a similar story to this one, and a dev has put together a plugin for HA that achieves the same thing. But it makes the exact same calls to the cloud service the OEM uses, so I’m certain they’re getting the same usage data from me, regardless of the software means I use to make those calls.
It is insanely petty. Perhaps they don’t want people reverse engineering their APIs, but all their competitors and threat actors likely do it, just not on a public repo.
“Specifically, the plug-ins are using our services in an unauthorized manner, which is causing significant economic harm to our Company.”
Presumably, they don’t charge customers extra for hOn, so surely the only people using it via HA are the same people that would otherwise have used their (presumably) shitty app that isn’t meeting the customers’ needs in the first place?
Not clear on how this causes them “significant” economic harm. Dick move.
Im expecting that HA provides a better experience because it might be hitting their services more than their own app, and they haven’t costed the resources for hosting their service to include those extra requests coming from HA?
Possibly, but we’re talking about appliances here. I know for a fact that my HVAC controller polls their cloud service just as much as my HA does (using a similarly-developed plugin to what we’re talking about here).
Of course, that could mean it’s doubling the number of times they’re being hit, but I somehow doubt there’s millions of customers doing that - the forks and stars on the repos are only in the hundreds.
I’m guessing it’s what others here have already said - loss of usage data that they’ve been able to sell.
Specifically, the plug-ins are using our services in an unauthorized manner
By plug-ins, you mean your customers?
I just used their Feedback form to tell them what a shitty practice that is and that I will never use their products again.
Not that it likely matters much but I sent them an email saying I would never purchase one of their products based on this anti-consumerism.
I’m lazy, can you share your email so I can send a copy?
Special shout-out to LiftMaster/Chamberlain who did the same rug-pull on their customers last year.
Never trust free cloud services attached to a paid product.
You know what that means, soldiers. Clone, clone, clone the repo, far and wide, online and offline. Fuck 'em. Give them the PirateBay whackamole treatment.
eh, another one for the blacklist… it’s getting difficult.
Who is on the allow list in terms of appliances like washing machines?
Honestly I don’t know. I have a non-smart REX Electrolux washer-dryer combo that’s been working well, but I have no idea what their approach to users is.
Never considered buying Haier anyway, but i am looking specifically for appliances that have HAOS support. So them pulling this shit will put them on my black list for ever. I get why Mazda did it, but the car doesn’t need the app to be useful, i can just ignore that part. But this is an home appliance that looses a big part of it’s usefulness…
Some enterprising engineer should start selling replacement control boards for these units. Like, drop-in, solder-on clones with 100% open source control firmware, linked with an ESP32. Zigbee/Zwave/Wifi+MQTT. I don’t mind, I’ll buy their unit and throw out their shitty controller. They’re not gonna DRM the compressor, are they?
Hell, if someone does that I’d consider opening a shop where I flip “refurbished” units with the open source board in em.
It’s what was done for Panasonic ACs: https://www.espthings.io/index.php/2023/09/02/esphome-panasonic-climate-interface/
I’m sure somebody will take a really close look at Haier ACs now.
I was happy to see earlier, the developer commented the following:
Luckily I’m insured. I’ve contacted my legal expenses insurance and they’re covering a lawyer for the case. I will seek advice and see how an expert assesses the situation and then proceed.
Tldr, They are going to fight this!
Source: https://github.com/Andre0512/hon/issues/147#issuecomment-1892738060
Their follow-up:
I have written to Haier to try to get some clarification and perhaps an agreement. I hope Haier will listen to us now that so many people are supporting us. Thank you all!
Dear Haier team,
you have probably noticed that my announcement to delete the plugin has met with a lot of displeasure from the community. There are a number of people who bought your appliances not only because of the good price/performance ratio, but also because they can be integrated into home assistant.
I think it would be helpful to the discussion if you could explain the following questions:
Please provide details of WHICH clauses of terms of service does this project violate? What is an unauthorized manner? What significant economic harm is being faced by the company? (in terms of dollar figures) When did these projects violate your intellectual property?I’m sorry if some people have gone over the top, but this doesn’t have to escalate and there doesn’t have to be a bad reputation for your brand in the open source community.
Can we find a common solution here? Can I do something to make the plugins use the API more economically? Should we reduce the polling? I would like to release a new version that uses the API in a way that does not harm your business. You can also consider an official home assistant integration, the home assistant guys would like to get in touch with you for that. This would be a great competitive advantage within the smart home community.
I hope to get an answer and until then I’ll leave the repos online.
Andre
Dude has a good heart, that’s for sure. I hope Haier sees the light.
I love his reply, but i’m afraid history so far has shown that supporting open platforms is not a competitive advantage. The number of hackers like us in the smart home market is negligable. Proper closed platforms rake in the big money, and the public loves it… Add on some cloud integration & a subscription to functionalities that would take a home assistant user not much time to set up, and you’ve got something the average customer seems to want…
Still a shit (and probably without any real legal basis) attempt by Haier, but if they’re actually aiming at a walled smart home system, from an economical perspective they’re probably right… And i hate that they’re right…
When will companies learn that you don’t fuck with developers.
Oh no. At least there’s no way for everyone in the world to make a backup before it goes dark…
This is the great thing about FOSS. Someone else will just take the code and reupload it. If they want it removed from GitHub, they can deal with Microsoft. At which point it’ll just be re-uploaded again. There’s nothing illegal about it.
So Haier suffers the Streisand effect and the people who want to simply continue using it.
Right… they claim hosting it is a violation of their TOS, but I’m not one of their customers. How can I violate their TOS if I don’t even use their product.
There’s clearly a lot of negative towards the company, which I agree with, but I’m not reading enough positive support for the dev…
It must be a bit daunting being on the frontline going through this
I’d guess that anyone using the plugin could help them feel supported in these situations by contributing on their “Buy me a coffee” link…
Genuine link as verified from https://github.com/Andre0512/hon#support
