All the negative anti-Hillary comments in this thread aside, please vote responsibly in 2024.
We cannot afford another 2016 situation again.
Tell that to the democratic party that is insisting on putting up a senile old man as their candidate…
Because 2020 under Biden is going so much better…
I dislike Biden for many reasons but he isn’t actively encouraging domestic terrorism, so yeah, I’d say it is. You have to understand your little shitstain set the bar lower than humanly thought possible.
No he’s just directing his DOJ to call anti-apartheid activists anti-Semitic domestic terrorists.
He is, and it’s important to remember, but that’s less harm than Trump would cause on the same issue, nevermind all the other issues.
Trump era had people being pulled off the streets into unmarked black vans, literally the bogeyman they used on name growing up about secret police. It wasn’t better, certainly. My concern, is that on one side they’re actively setting fires that can burn us all down, and on the other now, they’re letting those same fires burn, and it’s still burning people. We still have camps on the border. We still haven’t rolled back to Obama-era Cuba restrictions, we still haven’t seen any effort to lessen police funding and it’s oversized control of the budgets of nearly every city in the country. In fact, we’ve seen further money put into police to further militarize them. We haven’t seen Biden demonizing cop city protestors, but he hasn’t done shit in their favor either. We haven’t seen him putting money into food banks to help with record food insecurity. Nothings happening around housing, and most of us are spending over half our income on just rent.
Like, fuck man. Is the best choice really between active destruction and slow decimation?
No, he’s just actively encouraging genocide, which is totally fine and good with you I presume? People just like you are the reason hitler was able to take power. Nothing trump ever did reached the level of denying and supporting genocide. I’d rather have an idiot in power than a figurehead for very smart and very evil people pulling the strings.
I don’t know if you’ve noticed, but both Biden and Trump are promoting the same genocide. The difference is Biden’s support is quite unfavorable, while Trump’s base is riled up by the prospects of war and killing brown people. Hell, House Republicans are trying to expulse all Palestinians from the country.
Trump is not supporting the genocide to nearly the same degree as Biden. Also, we all know trump is all talk. Bidens words should always be taken more seriously than Trump’s, and Biden is the one capable of taking action. And he hasn’t. Nobody should reasonably expect anything of Trump in 2023, while on the other hand, Biden is the president right now, and has a duty to act. Biden is responsible for the genocide, trump is not.
I love how most of the comments here are about how much everyone hates Hillary rather than about what she actually said. I get it that people hate her, but let’s be real folks; Trump is the only relevant clear and present danger here. Bitching about Hillary seems pretty pointless at this point.
Thank you!
Bitching about Hillary is how Trump got elected in the first place.
No, Hillary and the DNC rigging the primary is how trunp got elected in the first place. Bernie would have won.
Rigging the primaries by… adhering to the popular vote. Got it.
No, by ending the primaries early, and by feeding her debate questions in advance, and 15 other things I’ve forgotten by now that we saw proof of in her emails.
A Hillary win would have saved the Supreme Court. Now we are on precarious ground. There was no disadvantage in her winning
Let’s face it - had she won, things would be way better than they are, and we wouldn’t be in the constant fascist danger we are now.
Yep, you can blame the Dems and Clinton herself 100% for that one, given that we know Bernie would have won. She is directly responsible for things being as bad as they are.
given that we know Bernie would have won
You don’t know that at all. You didn’t see the playbook against him.
True, but to pretend the Democrats didn’t actively sabotage their most popular candidate in favor of the “safe” choice… twice… is a stretch.
I voted for Biden. Will vote again.
Voted for Hilary, too.
Not because I wanted to. Democrats don’t seem to want to do much beyond maintain the status quo, at least at the presidential level.
Bernie was not their most popular candidate. This is an internet Fable. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2016_Democratic_Party_presidential_primaries#Graphical_summary_of_polling
It makes my head spin that people think Bernie lost because he couldn’t overcome the most standard political maneuverings of the Democrats, and yet he would somehow overcome the political maneuverings of the Republican party which plays far dirtier than the Democratic party does. Does everyone forget the Bush Campaign spreading rumors that John McCain’s adopted Bangladeshi daughter was actually an illegitimate Black child from an affair? Or how about when they turned John Kerry’s service in Vietnam into a something he only did for fame?
I hear you. What she said is correct. The thing is, this person is so unlikeable that there’s no way she can help. No matter how sharp you are, or how good of an elected official you’ll be (and I do think she would have been extremely good at her job if she was elected (I did vote for her)), you must have charisma to be effective in politics.
I honestly believe in my heart that if she paid millions for widespread TV ads with her saying “do not vote for Donald Trump” it would help him.
What she said is correct.
But it’s not though. The sentiment is in the right place but she got her facts wrong.
Again, you are focusing on her rather than on what she actually said. That’s what I find so telling and unfortunate. Are we really so shallow and politically inept that we can’t hear a message simply because we dislike the messenger?
It seems like you are telling me yes, that’s exactly how shallow and politically inept we are.
If so, that sucks, especially since you are almost certainly correct.
I am saying that I’m afraid, and I do believe it.
I’m not happy about it either man
Removed by mod
In a US style first past the post system the Nazis would have made a clean sweep in July 1932, and wouldn’t have had to intimidate anybody
It’s complicated but basically the chancellor (not nsdap) selected hitler as a way of trying to give him some power (because nsdap was still the biggest party after the 1932 election) so he’s happy but not enough where he could get out of control.
Spoiler alert it went out of control.
Are people seriously voting for trump? There is no reason other than authoritarianism. It’s kinda disturbing.
The answer is yes. They’re sheep.
Maybe not voting for Trump, but there are plenty who aren’t going to vote for Biden due to him gargling the balls of Israel.
So they’re helping Trump win. No actual difference.
A very nice black and white conclusion. Bravo.
I’m a leftist and if I were going to vote for a Uniparty candidate, it’d probably be trump, on account of not literally denying genocide while actively preventing an end to said genocide. Seriously, if your logic for Biden over trump involves the word fascism, go ahead and explain exactly how America could get more fascist than we are right now. Nothing is more inherently fascist than committing genocide
Lmao, at the gop debate, they were literally talking about deporting people if they talk shit about Israel. Do you really think Trump is going to be the Savior of Palestine?
I didn’t say I iked him, I said he isn’t already guilty of genocide, unlike Biden. Trump very well might also commit genocide. But we know for sure Biden would, because he is openly supporting it right now.
America has always supported fascism abroad; genocide, military coups to overthrow democratic governments, invading countries to conquer land and extract resources.
The thing is though there’s usually a clear separation between domestic and foreign policy. Bomb the children in the middle east, not the ones in Los Angeles. Not saying this is right, just that’s been the U.S’s take in general.
So Trump and domestic fascism is different in a tangible way, it introduces fascism locally, and I don’t think individuals or groups that are that openly fascistic will start supporting democracy or proletarian causes overseas.
Voting for domestic fascism as a way to curb fascistic foreign policy approaches probably won’t work out too well.
You’re taking as given that trump would be more fascist domestically. But why? I mean, it doesn’t matter where you genocide someone. So Biden is already reaching the heights of fascism. The only thing more fascist than staging an unjust coup is committing genocide. I don’t think it’s a bold stance to say that I’d rather see a 2nd J6 than a 2nd Trail of Tears. America is going to come out just fine from the first J6, however the natives absolutely did not come out just fine from the trail of tears.
If the calculus is literally just “vote for the less fascist one”, I don’t see any way that that’s not trump. Biden has already green lit the end goal of fascism to begin with. Hopefully this is the year Americans stand up to our masters though and don’t let them lower the bar for president to “not literally helping commit a genocide… Yet.” Because I certainly do not have high hopes for the idea of trump actually standing up to our genocidal ally. He is just obviously more likely to do so than Biden.
America is already guilty of one genocide, we need to do everything we can to ensure it doesn’t become 2.
To answer your first question, the attempted coup. Biden didn’t encourage and rally his supporters to storm Congress. He doesn’t have the backing of white nationalists and neo-Nazis. Trying to seize power domestically via a group of fascists is more domestically fascistic than not doing that.
Also, even if Trump suddenly becomes a leftist ally and pulls out all U.S involvement in Israel, they’ll still be genociding Palestinians. You can’t put literally 100% of the blame of the Palestinian ethnic cleansing on the U.S, when it was actually started originally by British imperialism and is perpetuated by the terrorist state of Israel.
Voting for Trump as a vote against fascism seems wildly misinformed to me. The first Trump presidency already stacked the Supreme Court enough to overturn Roe. If he becomes President again, it’s well within the realm of possibility that he pardons Jan 6th offenders, pardons himself, and they seize power permanently in the U.S.
I get your hope that while we’re all being subjected to a new fascist dictatorship, that somehow his pure leftist heart changes the behavior of the imperial core and we pull out of Israel, but even if that happens Palestinians will still be genocided. We’ll just also have more sociopolitical regression (gay/trans people will be outlawed, the bit of social services we have will be gutted, capitalist exploitation will reach new heights, etc.)
I hate that there are so many Trump supporters on Lemmy.
Are there though? I haven’t seen any so far, but they are a scourge ultimately.
Oh yeah they’re everywhere. Granted they aren’t flying flags off their oversized pickups so they’re a bit harder to notice, but they’re definitely hanging around the comment sections.
Russia has to send it’s finest Trump shills, after all.
Its* finest.
take this for your next encounter
deleted by creator
How the Hillary Clinton campaign deliberately “elevated” Donald Trump with its “pied piper” strategy
Edit: Sorry, downvoters; it is what it is.
An email recently released by the whistleblowing organization WikiLeaks shows how the Clinton campaign and Democratic Party bear direct responsibility for propelling the bigoted billionaire to the White House.
In its self-described “pied piper” strategy, the Clinton campaign proposed intentionally cultivating extreme right-wing presidential candidates, hoping to turn them into the new “mainstream of the Republican Party” in order to try to increase Clinton’s chances of winning.
Ah, the real reason people hate WikiLeaks. It exposed the truth, but rather than focus on the truth people focused on the messenger.
It exposed the truth, but rather than focus on the truth people focused on the messenger.
In this case, the media also focused on the messenger and gave Hillary a pass on the actual contents of those e-mails.
Sadly the republicans had zero say in their slide to right wing extremism and could do nothing about it. It’s not like their flirtation with the Tea Party movement meant anything.
Yup, poor poor Republicans… They don’t actually agree with all the things they say on Facebook or memes they share, or political violence they wish for or enact. Poor Republicans, it was all the evil Democrats that made Republicans be who they are. It’s really a shame that they have absolutely no brain of their own that they just go with whatever the Democrats make them do. We should be lead by that party though, because they’re “free thinkers”
…wait
Ah yes the rampant sexism of American politics is on full display
Acting as if dislike of Hilary is solely due to sexism is either simple-minded ignorance or dismissive of people that aren’t your enemy.
I voted for her, but not because I thought she was a good and honest person. I don’t think that at all, and would rather Bernie have won the nomination. She was way more qualified and way less of a dangerous wildcard than Trump, so she got my vote but not everyone saw it that way unfortunately.
Among the current Repugs I’d pick Hailey now, but none of them will get my vote in the general.
It’s majority sexism against a strong woman with power. The vitriol against her was unmatched. To this day people blame her for hearsay or flat out fabrications of things she supposedly did that other Politicians, namely Trump, were proven guilty of. It’s incredible when you look down through the list. The Bush and Trump Administrations both violated the same data handling rules by using private communication mechanisms and commit countless crimes surrounding it; Yet Hillary is the one to get the most criticism despite nothing being covered up. I had a list years back that Trump was guilty of nearly everything the Clintons were accused of. Crazy.
I have had so many conversations with people who insist that they want women in positions of political power who can’t name one woman in power that they don’t hate. Generally they don’t seem to have the same problem with men. So I have long since stopped talking people’s assertions in the subject at face value
Ah yes, the rampant sexism of Democrats claiming that the only reason an extremely unlikable woman who cheated in her primary lost is because of sexism.
She beat him by 3 Million votes
She fucking LOST!!! Why the fuck do you think her getting 3 million more votes matters? Bernie would have won. We know this for a fact, by comparing contemporary polling data for both candidates with what actually happened. Trump is 100% the fault of Hillary Clinton and the DNC.
I get it, but this take fucking worries me, dawg. The last time the Democrats played the “I don’t have to try and appeal to you because the other guy is Hitler, lol” card, ‘Hitler’ won. It’s even a little on the nose that this is coming from Hillary. I’m worried that they’re falling into the same intellectually and politically bankrupt trap as in 2016, that they’re aware that they don’t have a meaningful platform besides “we’re not republicans”, and that they’ve somehow convinced themselves that this is enough. The republicans of 2020 and 22 also had that same absence of platform, absence of appeal, and just trying to coast on party brand, and look where that got them. Shit is on fire, we don’t have time for these dumb fuck games, let alone for Trump to win again. C’mon guys, don’t fuck this up.
When she called them deplorables they ate it up. She just needs to not stick her nose in.
yeah, i came here to post that she is not the person to voice this. anyone currently supporting trump isn’t going to suddenly switch sides to his opponent in the original race, it actually just weakens the argument.
The thing those people don’t understand is that they think democracy is a goal onto itself, instead of a means to an end. A good chunk of the population would happily get rid of democracy in order to have someone in power ‘who can just get stuff done’. Especially since said democracy is ridiculously unresponsive to the will of the people.
Compare the polling on the Gaza conflict compared to what members in the house are saying, for example. Or any other super popular thing (legalising weed, taxing the wealthy, not running a global empire that constantly gets involved in wars,…)
And, for the record, Hillary, Hitler never got over 50% of the vote, it was other, so-called democratic parties that gave him the Chancellor job. They could’ve created a different governing coalition, but they thought they could control him.
It’s not an accident. The country is moving left, and the right-wing Democrats are afraid of losing control of the party. They almost did, twice. They don’t take the “the other guy is Hitler” rhetoric seriously, themselves. They aren’t worried about losing their power if the Republicans win the Whitehouse, or even both branches of Congress, because it’s all one big club, and they won’t be kicked out, as long as they go along to get along, but they are terrified that a leftist rise will take the reigns of the Democratic party from them, and then they really will be out of power.
They’re gonna fuck it up.
Honestly, I truly believe that both Democratic and Republican politicians benefit from all the bullshittery going on - so of course they’ll actually do nothing to improve the situation for America’s citizens. As long as they get money and they get paid, they’ll say and do whatever the fuck they can, including fucking things up for us.
Probably not much better across the pond, but I am finding myself more and more looking up how to become a UK citizen because at least they have less zany shit going on from what I can tell.
both Democratic and Republican politicians benefit from all the bullshittery going on
They absolutely don’t. They just have a very short term view because of reelection cycles and fundraising needs. You’d think their capitalist masters would also realize this increasing polarization and dissatisfaction with the status quo is going to make the line go down, but nobody ever accused economic liberals of actually being aware when the noose was tightening on their necks.
Hitler lost, and was later appointed to Chancellor unilaterally. So idk wtf she’s talking about.
I think it’s close enough that you can get the point.
No, it’s worth noting that it was lesser evil voting in a sense that got Hitler appointed. The Social Democrats blocked with the Conservative Hindenburg, who won. Hindenburg then appointed Hitler Chancellor.
One wonders what would have happened if the Social Democrats had blocked with the Communists in a left slate, or at least gotten concessions from the Conservatives.
Edit to add link to 1932 election. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/1932_German_presidential_election
I’d need to have much more of a background in that era of Germany to start speculating like that. We might as well talk about Hitler being accepted into Art School or whatever that butterfly effect idea was.
Choosing to support the right wing guy, Hindenburg, that didn’t really believe in democracy who in less than 2 years later appoints the guy who ends democracy is not a big stretch of cause and effect.
I’m saying I am not familiar enough with the party structure and how collations needed to be formed to be comfortable to speculate. You may be right, you may be wrong. I don’t know. You’re not the first person I’ve seen say it.
No, it’s not. Being appointed and being elected are fundamentally different. One implies a Democratic process, the other does not.
His party was democratically elected to gain enough power to get appointed. That’s the point.
Someone couldn’t find a photo of her looking less…Palpatine-y?
Hillary is toxic to the brand. The Democrats would be wise to keep her at arms distance.
It’s a little sad because decades of right-wing anti-Hillary propaganda not only proved effective, but it noticeably altered Hillary into this jaded cynic completely lacking in vision or idealism. I’m not a huge Hillary fan, but the vast majority of the hate is completely manufactured outrage. That being said it doesn’t change what you said being valid.
You can see them trying with AOC, but I suspect it won’t yield the same results.
Middle Finger
This is your hourly reminder that the general election is nothing but a popularity contest and all the real voting power is with the electoral college members who can vote however they like even against their states general pop vote.
Its a puppet show for adults to make the politically minded feel important. Every single canidate who makes it to the ballots is bought and paid for. Vote however you like, or not at all. It doesn’t matter, and hasn’t mattered for decades.
That isn’t really so, faithless electors have never been likely, the occasional faithless elector has had nearly no impact on elections, and a recent (2020 I believe) Supreme Court ruling made it clear that they are not allowed.
There are many issues with the general election. The electoral college is the original gerrymandering set up by our founding white supremacists, and the first-past-the-post, winner-take-all system makes sure that general elections only give the public minimal choice between two major party candidates. We desperately need to reform the system.
But voting in the general election remains necessary, to minimize harm, and voting in the primary election is vital, as the only place we get any real chance at a say. If we want to reform the system, dropping out if it is the surest way to fail. It’s exactly what the major parties want you to do.
She totally doesn’t look like a Disney villain in this picture /s
Maybe a politicker who brags about being mentored by Henry Kissinger, a war-criminal whose record matches that of Heinrich Himmler himself, shouldn’t be referencing Hitler.
And yet, you have no problem using electronics built with slave labor.
Oh, look… another Holocaust apologist.
Can you tell me the name of the ethically sourced device you’re using?
I don’t discuss squat with genocide apologists.
:-/
If you really wanted to set off a riot, you could say you’re using a Huawei device. Then tear into these dorks by citing the peak standard of living of Chinese industrial workers relative to their global peers. No student debts. No medical debts. 90% of them own their own homes. Retirement at the age of 60 is the norm. Life expectancy that exceeds their Western peers. Higher GINI index ranking.
Lemmy.word hates China with a passion, and nothing drops napalm on a thread like mentioning how much better Chinese industrial workers have it than folks doing shift work in a Toyota plant in Georgetown, Kentucky or Tijuana, Mexico, much less a Mississippi carpenter or some poor bastard doing contract machinist work in lead-contaminated Flint Michigan. And heaven help these bastards if they’re in the UK. People in that former heart of empire can’t even afford groceries, while folks in Pacific Rim states like Vietnam and Malyasia have grown fat and happy.
Bit of a false assumption, isn’t that? There is no ethical consumption under Capitalism, so trying to advocate for better while participating in an unjust system is a requirement for many people.
There’s no ethical way to run a nation. Lincoln was barely able to free the slaves and FDR couldn’t end segregation. Hilary listening to Kissenger doesn’t mean she supports everything he ever did.
There’s no ethical way to run a nation. Lincoln was barely able to free the slaves and FDR couldn’t end segregation.
A hard, bitter truth
Hilary listening to Kissenger doesn’t mean she supports everything he ever did.
Absolute bullshit.
“matches that of Heinrich Himmler”, you mean the head of the SS and one of the main people behind the holocaust?
Have you ever considered that your life, and life in general would be better if you didn’t have such absurd and shrill opinions?
Unfortunately, the American education system just kinda gives up teaching history after 1945. Otherwise, you might be more familiar with the US State Department sponsored coups and subsequent genocides in Latin America, the Middle East, Africa, and the Pacific Rim over the subsequent 40 years.
Kissinger absolutely was administering mass arrests and executions in US client states, from the overthrow of democracies in Iran and Egypt to the massacres of dissidents in Jakarta and Rio de Janeiro and Santiago to the arming of the Khmer Rouge and subsequent bombings in Laos and Cambodia. Say what you will about Himmler, but he only really had the reigns of a mid-sized European industrial power for a decade. Kissinger was instrumental in steering truly nightmarish foreign policies on an international scale for four times as long.
And when you look at how folks like Kerry and Clinton and Blinken consistently turn to the Kissinger playbook to advance US foreign policy in the modern day, he’s got even more blood on his hands by proxy than that.
I guess you’re one of those people who day that Hamas is exactly the same as, and has been doing the exact same as Hitler?
Nuanced, very nuanced…
Hamas is exactly the same as, and has been doing the exact same as Hitler?
A small paramilitary organization operating in occupied territory is doing the exact same as the Chancellor of a European industrial powerhouse?
I’m always a bit surprised when some terminally online guy tries to give people in Hamas this much credit.
Small paramilitary organization? Okay guys, we can call Isreal out for genocide while still acknowledging Hamas as a terrorist group that slaughtered 1,000 civilians, plus whatever else since then.
Hamas and Isreal both suck. The only people I care about are the civilians and dead kids.
Okay guys, we can call Isreal out for genocide
Can we? I heard that was anti-semitism.
Hamas and Isreal both suck.
One is a paramilitary response to the suffocating violent occupation of the other. Might as well denounce the Vietcong, the Spanish Republicans, or Nate Turner Slave Revolt as Terrorists. You wouldn’t be the first.
But to equate the two is to equate the symptom with the illness. Even the fucking Times of Israel acknowledges that the Hamas movement is the direct result of Netanyahu’s domestic policies. The Palestinian Authority has been denuded of all legal agency in a territory they cannot govern thanks to Israeli sanctions. Gaza hasn’t had an election since 2006. There is no way for anyone in the territory to survive, absent the black markets and smuggling corridors maintained by Hamas paramilitary.
This is a deliberate consequence of the stated policies of the Israeli government.
So both Hamas and the IDF are creatures of the Israeli government. The only way to resolve this conflict is to effect regime change in Israel.
The only people I care about are the civilians and dead kids.
The only way to achieve that is a ceasefire. And Israel will not implement a ceasefire until its leadership is removed.
