phillaholic

Show me a federal election that a green candidate has won. The goalposts haven’t been moved, they never were in a place where green could win in the first place.

? The reason it’s being pushed is Russian propaganda.

I’ve said before that there is no resolution without getting rid of Hamas. Outside of that, there are measures like this. If these are meaningless, then all out war is the only answer and that’s what Israel is doing.

You neglected to include what should be done with the terrorist group that started the conflict by invading and killing a thousand Israeli citizens. It’s like you’ve read one side of the conflicts view point and ignored the rest. So you know how many times two state solutions have been negotiated and why they fell through? It’s really difficult to compromise when some people don’t think Israel should even exist. I don’t expect you to solve it, it’s impossible. There’s hopefully some good news coming out today https://apnews.com/article/palestinians-abbas-israel-hamas-war-resignation-1c13eb3c2ded20cc14397e71b5b1dea5

The policies are the same

Not that has any chance of winning.

Support for Hamas is Growing

I don’t believe adding more guns solves any problem, so that’s a non starter for me.

However just today, Palestinian prime minister submitted the government’s resignation, so we will see what’s next.

Both sides of the line support Israel. Either you’re saying it in bad faith or need to take your head out of the sand. Anti-Israel isn’t on the ballot. If you want a full fledge war in the Middle East, feel free to not vote Biden and give the GOP the conflict they’ve been wanting since the bush admin.

They promote whatever view promotes apathy and division.

What? A purity test is discounting someone on your side because of a small part of their views.

It’s fake social media groups created by foreign adversaries that convince Americans to go out and do it. It’s been well established that the likes of China, Russia, North Korea, etc have weaponized our free speech against us. We can’t do the same against them, so we are at a disadvantage.

Citizens took bayonettes to the chest, and watched their body parts fly apart in opposite directions on foreign beaches, for our sacred right to choose who leads us. The alliegance is to the country, not any party.

No idea what you’re tying to say here. Republicans are welcoming this shit.

You’re making Gavin Newson cry.

I don’t think he’s as universally liked as you think. There’s so weirdness with one of his exes now being involved with one of Trumps kids too, so that’s another thing that they’d hold against him.

Israel is occupying and oppressing what WOULD have otherwise been a sovereign nation.

But it’s not, and if your claim is Gaza just wants to mind it’s own business, I’ll remind you this war started with Hamas invading Israel and killing over a thousand people. If you’d treat them as a sovereign nation, they committed and act of war.

it’s clear to anyone with even an ounce of objectivity that it’s actually attacking the Palestinian people as a whole.

Hamas is the governing body of Gaza, and is integrated throughout. It’s impossible to attack Hamas and not everyone. It’s war, not one of the US’s Quasi-Conflict drone strike situations. These attacks back and forth have been going on for more than 30 years. Hamas’ attack last fall was by far the biggest escalation.

By their OWN assessment they’re killing TWICE as many innocent civilians as Hamas and since they refuse to show any proof, the ratio is likely much worse.

I agree with you about the refusing to show any proof point. I think there should be a UN presence and that’s something I hope the US is pushing behind the scenes. However it’s difficult to hold Israel to a high standard when Hamas consistently targets civilians. It’s like bringing a knife to a gun fight when both sides aren’t following the rules. I wonder how many conflicts actually follow the Geneva convention?

They are an illegitimate government and civilians who never voted for them shouldn’t suffer for their atrocities.

This is partially what makes it so complex. The only real way to fix that is to destroy Hamas. Do you have a better idea on how to do that? I don’t.

That doesn’t mean that AT LEAST two civilians needs to die for every Hamas terrorist killed

I’m not defending Irsael’s specific actions. I have no idea if they could be more careful. I know that their overreach is why Stuxnet became public, so I could see them overdoing it. However, just like the US has gotten criticized for Drone strikes killing civilians, it’s incredibly difficult to sort out terrorists who blend into the civilian population and don’t follow any of the internal rules of war.

Because of the aforementioned illegal occupation

It’s way more complicated then an “illegal occupation.” The entire region has been a problem dating back thousands of years, and decisions made by the west at the end of World War II are a key part of it. Israel existing at all is a problem for some groups, and we can see how that went last time.

So civilians should die for the desires of their governments?

That’s War. It’s Terrible. Military service is compulsory in Israel too. And remember Hamas started this particular conflict by killing Israeli citizens.

It’s at least as important to remember that the only alternative to “nothing” isn’t “a laundry list of horrific crimes against humanity”. Stow the false dichotomies, please.

I’ve already touched this point talking about their tactics. Those can absolutely be debated. You can criticize them for not allowing third party reporting, the UN, etc. Those are all valid points. I’m talking about in the broad sense that this is a retaliation, not an attack; And Doing nothing is a kin to welcoming more and larger attacks, because Hamas has nothing to lose.

Which the fascists are using as an excuse to indiscriminately murder civilians including by denying them basic life necessities such as food, water, electricity, fuel, medical treatment and medicine.

File this under tactics too. Completely reasonable to question these specifics.

I hope AIPAC or another Israeli government agency is paying you well for your efforts, otherwise it’s just sad for you to be spending so much time and effort regurgitating all the long debunked genocide apologia of an apartheid regime…

I never said I approved of the tactics they are using. I only suggested that the overall idea that there should be Peace or Israel should stop completely is not possible. It’s way more complex than people here understand. I’m not denying it’s an apartheid regime, I just don’t see any good outcome, just bad ones. Most of the time it takes all out war to resolve, and I’d file that firmly under bad.

Russian propaganda.

They want to use it to cause “empire” collapse.

Which will ironically cause the GOP to throw away democracy in favor an an authoritarian state. Those people are either Russian propagandists or rubes.

Running a Primary against the President would almost certainly guarantee a Democratic loss. It’s like admitting failure and asking to try again. Furthermore there is no clear alternative waiting to run. “Votes are not owed, they are given” is kinda bunk. Someone is going to win the election whether you like it or not. If you treasure the ability to vote at all, there is only one person on the ballot that is going to ensure that moving forward. The GOP is actively talking about overturning democracy at CPAC. Especially in a topic about Israel, which the GOP has stronger support for than the DNC. If you’d rather see the US Military help Israel, by all means vote Republican, because they have been trying to find an excuse to go to war with Iran for ever, and starting another war in the middle east would be their we dream.

write all your congresspeople and tell them that they need to stop supporting Israel.

That’s a bad idea. If the US stops supporting Israel, Hamas and their financial backers will immediately invade to wipe them off the planet. I don’t know if the rhetoric I hear is mostly Russian propaganda, or people don’t really understand the conflict. Israel didn’t just decide to invade Gaza, there was an 9/11-esk terrorist attack by Hamas that triggered his retaliation. Despite being the defacto governors of Gaza, Hamas is a terrorist organization and operates like one. There is no attacking Hamas without attacking Gaza. They are essentially one in the same, and there is no peaceful solution when Hamas goal is to wipe Israel off the planet. It would be a kin to the US not going after Osama Bin Laden after 9/11. Do you think he would have stopped? I don’t think I’ve heard anyone seriously suggest the US should have done nothing after 9/11. Going into Afghanistan was pretty well supported (Ignoring Iraq, because that’s where the Bush Admin fucked it up). The only solution to 9/11 was a time machine going back and not getting involved in the Middle East in the first place, but now where talking a reverse butterfly effect of who knows what happens. The Israel-Hamas conflict is older than Hamas, and it quite literally one of, if not the most complex Geo-political issues in history.

Personally I think the best Idea would be the pressure Israel into larger oversight by the UN, or whomever. I don’t see any true peace while Hamas or any other Islamist extremist organization exists in that region. The time for that was twenty plus years ago.

I keep asking for a viable alternative and all I get is vote third party or stay home which solves exactly nothing.

That’s wrong too. Voting for Biden keeps it the same. Voting third party or staying home makes it worse. Making it better isn’t on the ballot.

This is the answer. If Bernie actually had a base around the country he may have won in 2016. The number of people unfamiliar with Politics that were shocked that established Democrats didn’t care for a guy who isn’t a party member coming into it to try to win the nomination is downright laughable. If he stayed a Democrat and helped support like-minded candidates around the country, maybe he would have had a better shot in 2020. His heart was in the right place, but I think his strategy and feasibility planning was awful.

How can you vote for someone you’ve been accusing of genocide for months?

These stupid purity tests need to end. You can’t cut ties with someone over single issues with insanely complex situations. Especially when the alternative is not possible on top of wouldn’t be different.