mullvad and proton stand as vpn. However, mullvad does not allow torrenting because there is no port forwarding. Mullvad should not be on the list
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Mullvad is one of the most proven privacy friendly vpn services. (the cops literally confiscated their servers and came out with nothing) Torrenting also isn’t the only way to pirate data (plus seeding can be done without an open port, just limits you too peers with open ports)
Mullvad is great if privacy is your only metric, but it’s not unique in that respect and no port forwarding is a serious limitation in this context. I’ve been looking into alternatives and AirVPN and OVPN both look reputable.
Torrenting also works fine sans port forwarding. I haven’t ever had port forwarding and maintain a 2.0+ ratio easily. This is just straight up disinformation from halfwits demonstrating that a little knowledge is a dangerous thing in the hands of the ignorant.
2.0 is low
Even on public trackers I maintain a 6:0 ratio to give back (or even more depending on the torrent).If everyone is sharing at a 6-1 ratio, where are the other five copies of everything going?
I torrent just fine without port forwarding, with more than 2.0 seed ratio on some.
Do you even know what you’re rambling about?
“Just fine” is relative. Torrenting requires at least one side to have an open port. If you don’t have port forwarding, you’re entirely reliant on other people having their ports open instead. Even if there are 1000 seeds, if all of them have closed ports you’ll be unable to connect to them. It’s kneecapping your connections for no good reason.
What about holepunching?
Hole punching is how torrenting is possible at all without port forwarding. But it still relies on the other person having an open port, because hole punching only works to initiate things on your end.
Decided to do some more reading on this topic. TIL:
TCP, the more common protocol; requires at least one side to have a port forwarded through their NAT to the client, so the other side can make a connection to that open port.
uTP on the other hand, can ‘holepunch’ by sending a packet to a known IP, which opens a port through the sending clients NAT, specifically for that IP. That port can then be used to send and receive by either side until it closes due to inactivity.
So, torrent clients can use uTP holepunching to open a port without requiring manual forwarding, then advertise that open port to public trackers. Client ‘A’ will try to connect to an IP+port it got from the tracker and get ignored (because the recipient NAT isn’t expecting data from that IP and drops the packets). Then when client ‘B’ decides to connect to client ‘A’, 'A’s port will now be open and allowing data from 'B’s IP, thus establishing a connection.
This is slower than a direct connection because both clients need to be made aware of each other and decide to attempt to connect at reasonably similar times. It also requires public trackers with peerexchange enabled and the torrents cannot be flagged as private.
Bullshit, Trackers and DHT hold IP and port of peers, hole-punching technique allows to open both sides.
The only difference is the speed to establish connection:
- With an open port, it is done instantly as peers can reach you directly.
- Without, you need to wait for the seeder to fetch your IP from tracker (slow) or to recieve it from DHT (fast).
Now, the reason why it seems hard to seed torrents on private tracker, that disable DHT, is because seeders with closed port will only fetch leechers IP from tacker 1 to 4 times per hour, so by the time the hole-punched connection is established, leecher has already sucked up all the data from peers with open ports.
It’s fine to keep port closed if you avoid private tracker and DHT disabled torrents. If you want to build up ratio on a crappy private tracker, seeding a piece of a fat 100Gb+ torrent will do.
You could’ve had a ratio of 20 if you were torrenting with your port forwarded.
You can still torrent with Mullvad, it’s just gonna be slower because you have less peers. But it’s still 100% doable. They don’t block torrenting entirely…
See my response to feebleneedle. It works, but it’s not just that it’s slower. Port forwarding is important for the health of the community.
AirVPN and OVPN are options that seem to be of similar integrity to Mullvad.
It’s been years since the ovpn company was sold
Sure, I was trying to correct the statement that it’s not possible at all though.
Yep. Some people seem to forget about NAT Hole Punching.
Still allows torrenting tho. K nvm
u/daiqo said that before vpntorrents was shut down on reddit. He said airvpn protonvpn.
torrenting using mullvad vpn rn, what are you even on about?
Seeding is crippled due to no port forwarding. You can download, you just can’t really share back.
This is exaggerated. I seeded 500gb in the last 3 days and I use mullvad.
Port forwarding is not a strict requirement. The reciever can have open ports, and even if not, NAT hole punching often works.
Can you explain how this works? My seeding is garbage and I’m not sure how to set it up to work better.
It shouldn’t need setup if you use a modern client.
My experience with seeding involves me having 80 or so semi popular torrents seeding 24/7. So that might be why. When my library was smaller or back when I opened my client only to download I barely seeded.
I use qbittorrent, and even popular or legitimate torrents get zero uploads.
correct.
but to say “However, mullvad does not allow torrenting because there is no port forwarding. Mullvad should not be on the list” is incorrect. (emphasis is mine)
I have torrents have a great seed ratio and use mullvad
Can someone explain this?
qBittorrent still shows my torrents as being seeded when not using port forwarding.
See my response to feebleneedle. No port forwarding limits connections
Without port forwarding you can only connect to those who do have it set up.
Neither me nor my friend set up port forwarding and it still worked.
It worked because the other people you connected to opened up a port themselves.
Edit: In some cases the tracker can open up a port for the peers. See https://discuss.tchncs.de/comment/18977148
I was the only one seeding the torrent.
It seems like this would have something to do with the tracker that’s included when making a torrent with qbittorrent, but I don’t know much about that other than accepting the default and seeing it work.
People still believe this port forwarding bs?
You can seed fine without port forwarding… Thats what trackers are for!
That’s partially correct, partially wrong. An open port is required to allow for incoming connections for torrenting over TCP.
For TCP:
If a seed does not have an open port, a potential leech with an open port shares their IP & port with the tracker. The seed regularly asks the tracker for potential leeches. If the tracker provides a leech with an open port, then the seed connects to the leeches open port. This connection then allows the leech to download from the seed.
If neither of seed and leech has an open port, no connection can be established and thus no torrenting is possible.
For uTP/UDP:
If both peers (seed & leech) have no open ports, the tracker can use UDP hole punching to temporarily open up a port for the peers. The second peer can then connect directly to the first peer’s port which has been opened up by the tracker.
This only works for public torrents and with PEX enabled. For private trackers an open port is required.
This only works for public torrents and with PEX enabled. For private trackers an open port is required.
Wrong, tracker provide IP and port of leechers, which is just what is needed to hole-punch. It is just slower, as the seeder fetch tracker info 1 to 4 times per hour, so by the time the hole-punched connection is established, leecher has already sucked up all the data from peers with open ports.
If you want to build up ratio on a private tracker with closed port, seeding a piece of a fat 100Gb+ torrent will do.
Thanks for explaining. There is a lot of conflicting information out here - do you have any sources for where I can learn more?
I’m a little confused. Is that not a good thing? I’m still trying to learn.
Without port forwarding you can only connect to those who do have it set up. Doing so yourself allows you to be a better citizen of the internet and share with people who don’t know what it is.
(Caveat: I am one of those people who don’t understand it and am just parroting what was explained to me when I asked about this)
See my comment here. An open port is only required for TCP connections. uTP/UDP allows the tracker to open up a port temporarily in many cases. This won’t work for those stuck with ancient torrent clients.
This won’t work for those stuck with ancient torrent clients.
It also doesn’t work with Private Trackers.
So it’s more a seeding issue rather than a leeching issue in this case I assume.
well, you can’t leech from people with closed ports so… it’s still worse. better to get something that can actually forward ports.
So Proton is okay then, or do you have a better suggestion? I’m trying to look through the megathread for info.
proton would be fine. i’ve heard great stuff about airvpn too. haven’t used any though, i mostly don’t use a vpn
I think it’s both? I’m assuming you get fewer seeds you can connect to as well.
Either way, seeding issues are leeching issues, in the grand scheme of things.
Edit: I only stress the seed side because I’ve found I get things plenty fast even with Mullvad, so not explaining the issue and just talking about down speed can make it seem unnecessary, when it is in fact critical to the health of the community.
Without port forwarding you can only connect to those who do have it set up.
I don’t think this is true.
I’ve made torrents and then seeded them to my friends without either of us setting up port forwarding. All I did was give them the torrent file and then it worked.
Maybe there’s something going on under the hood that makes my situation unique. My experience though is that I didn’t have to do anything related to port forwarding when sharing a torrent.
However, port forwarding is required for something like Soulseek. I’m not sure why it would be required for one and not the other.
Probably the port forwarding was automatically set up by UPnP, which is also something that can’t be done on a vpn without port forwarding. If you have a tracker, the torrent might also work, but then the tracker itself would have to be port forwarded.
Were you using a VPN at the time? I was under the impression that the issue is at standard anything involving ports just doesn’t work with a VPN because it would be trying to get to the port on the VPN, which the VPN would rightly refuse unless you’d set it up to forward that port
Yes, I was using a VPN. It’s still working right now.
black0ut may be on to something, but I don’t know much about trackers. I think creating torrents with qbittorrent automatically includes ‘opentracker’ but I don’t really know what that means.
Port forwarding allows you to seed without revealing your IP address. If you seed on a VPN and you don’t have port forwarding, your IP is revealed to those you seed to.
Edit – I was wrong. You can technically seed securely behind a VPN connection, but since you can’t be connected to directly behind a vpn without port forwarding, you would only be able to seed to ppl who port forward, or who can be connected to directly. You would only be able to leech from everyone else.
If everyone torrented like this (behind a VPN without port forwarding), all torrents would grind to a halt; nobody would be able to seed.
Port forwarding allows connecting to peers who have not set it up (for both leeching and seeding). Two peers without port forwarding can’t connect to each other, if you set it up you can connect to every peer in the swarm. Torrenting behing a VPN always hides your real IP address😉
No. Port forwarding, with or without a VPN, helps connectivity – you’ll be able to accept incoming connections.
Without a VPN, peers can see your IP address with or without port forwarding.
Doesn’t that completely defeat the purpose of using a VPN?
If you were intending to seed, yes.
Do you know where I can learn more about this? That’s a pretty important detail to be as glossed over as it is in this community
Not exactly sure, but playing with setting up your own VPN will give you an idea of it.
Essentially, the VPN is run on a remote server. When you connect to the VPN, your traffic gets masqueraded out through the remote server, and replies get natted back to you. If you tried setting up a webserver on your computer and then accessing the webserver on the VPN server IP, it wouldn’t work, because the request coming in to the VPN server port would by default just reach the VPN server at that port.
This is where port forwarding comes in – if the VPN server allows you to port forward, you can set port X on the VPN server to go to port Y on your router (which would likely also have to port forward on your router to get to your computer).
