I think it does bring up some larger issues though. Like should limits be placed on accounts. Do we really want users like this? Are they adding to the experience?
Banned for what? Because I have different views than you do?! Do you realise that the vast majority of articles I post aren’t even to this community?! The person you responded to neglected to tell you that.
It’s actually an anti-Stein/Pro-democrat article. Look at the downvotes of the article. And go read the comments. lol
It got downvoted because I posted it. People downvote me because they think I am a russian troll who wants Trump to win. But I have posted several pro-democrat articles. So how does that fit in with your narrative of me and my behavior? Serious question; not “trolling.”
Because my point is that I think people are actually mad because they are emotional that I’m not voting for Harris. And to explain it, they are quick to say that I have an “agenda” or that “I’m trollish.”
But if I post articles that are pro-democrat/pro-Harris/anti-Trump/anti-Stein, and people are still mad, then how does that fit the idea that I am the one with some agenda?
So you’re saying I should just sit back and say nothing when people spread falsehoods about my motivations? What about when I’m accused of being Russian or not even living in the US—just let that slide too? What about that I am “multiple people” on this account because “no human could do that!” (which is hilarious by the way)
You’re literally advocating for me to be banned, and I shouldn’t respond to that? Really?
How about this: If people don’t want a response from me, or think that my responses are “trollish”, then maybe they should stop making accusations about me and just discuss the article.
A guy in this very thread, posts how many articles I post. And he does it every day. Sometimes multiple times a day. And he comes right out and says I shitpost. Now he is free to do that. My post history is public. But isn’t doing that sort of trying to get some response?
Him posting that and baiting me doesn’t get a rise out of me at all. But it’s obvious he’s targeting me and has been for some time. Feel free to check his post history and what he says to me. Again, he’s free to do that as much as he wants. But don’t I have a right to reply?
I had someone the other day, mention that they were responding to me ad nauseum to just increase the comment count for the post.
Is that in good faith?
If people just stopped responding to me, wouldn’t that pretty much eliminate all the drama?
Now, people TOTALLY have a right to respond to me and try to “call me out.” As often as they want, because it won’t stop me from posting. But if they have that right, don’t I have to right to respond?
My advice would be to only discuss the points of the article and stop trying to defend yourself in such a ridiculous manner. You don’t need to at all honestly and at this point it only further solidifies people’s perception of you.
You can only control yourself and pointing your finger at everyone else is never a good look.
Surely you can see what you have been doing is not working. Try something else.
Thanks for the advice. But I’ll defend myself and my views when I feel it necessary. Sometimes I ignore, sometimes I don’t. Depends on my mood. And though it was good for some discussion points to have with you, at the end of the day, I don’t really give a shit what angry Lemmy commenters say. lol
I gave you examples, but then you decide to not address those at all. So yeah, I’m not really gonna take your advice on this.
And for the record, I DID ignore all comments and only asked people to respond to the article and not make things personal, and everyone said I was a troll and/or a bot. In fact, I used to put it as a disclaimer when I posted. Caused WAY more uproar and drama than me responding. lolol That’s in my post history as well. So…
I’ll keep posting what I want, when I want, where I want, and respond to people how I want. Whether it is “working” or not. Thank you!
That’s not me being a troll. That’s showing you that no matter how many people here try to bully or pressure me, I have to right to post. That’s me being totally free to post what I want. Just like you are.
Also, it’s against this community’s civility rules to call someone a troll. Thank you!
Try harder please. I have read several articles posted by OP. They clearly have an agenda and have engaged in a lot of trolling behavior.
So the question is having an active troll/propagandist really good for the community. Maybe you could argue that they generate engagement or that we need to protect people’s right to disagree.
The community should carefully weigh this moving forward. If accounts that act like bots are allowed then this place will follow in the footsteps of Digg or Reddit.
Personally, I would have already set them straight as a moderator. I have never been impressed by edgy people who add very little to the conversation.
People do not complain about his posts, let me repeat that, his posts are not the problem. Nobody cares about his opinions. Nobody minds that he likes third parties, that part is fine.
It’s the behavior in comment sections that is the problem. How is it that we have a rule 4 that prohibits trolling, but we allow a user who consistently exhibits comment behavior intended to simply irritate whoever is interacting with them? Low effort, consistently full of logical fallacies, frequently misrepresenting himself and others, etc. These indicate a troll.
Again, it is comment behavior that is the problem. How many of his comments need to be removed before it is identified as a problematic account? I think we deserve some transparency here.
Where and how do you draw the line with regards to trolling behaviors in comments sections?
edit: Let me quote him from just below here, where he replied to someone replying to you right here:
I don’t have to explain anything to you or anyone else. Feel free to stop responding and commenting on my posts if you don’t want to hear replies from me. Thanks! :)
Does this add anything to a conversation? Does this further discourse in any constructive way? Does this encourage people to positively participate in our community?
I appreciate your effort here. It seems like the answer is that this user gets special treatment. Maybe it’s a mod or admin’s alt and no one is brave enough to stand against it.
I think they’re just erring on the side of free speech in general. They’ve always been fairly lenient with comment behavior that isn’t extremely blatant. Since they don’t seem to understand the nature of these things, we sort of have a responsibility to educate about it.
I know I have pointed out trolling/suspicious behavior by this account a few times. The mods I’ve talked to never seem to care and just tell me to block them, as if that actually solves the problem.
That’s part of the problem too. They don’t understand what a dedicated troll’s real long-term goals are. Good on them for never having been one, but I’d rather have a rare example of a healthy large internet community than a trolly one.
If I were to copy paste the same response across many threads, intentionally antagonizing users and making that obvious, what is the secret to having that not be considered trolling? Because apparently op somehow discovered how to achieve that. This user is making it beyond obvious. They intend to troll users, and they’re putting a lot of effort into it. Can you help us understand what makes that okay?
Outright trolling which you all have only moderated a portion of
Overall you have a user that disrupts the community in a variety of ways and contributes nothing of value - especially in their comments. I think at least a temporary ban has been justified for quite some time.
I don’t have to explain anything to you or anyone else. Feel free to stop responding and commenting on my posts if you don’t want to hear replies from me. Thanks! :)
Right, because you’re a hypocrite. “Don’t reply to me if you don’t want to interact” but then repeatedly dives into deep conversation threads that didn’t include you to add your useless cut-and-paste copypasta du jour. You’re obviously looking at the post history of some individuals, following them around and injecting yourself where you are not wanted. You know who does that? Trolls.
Thank you for calling this out in detail. I think that copy pasting responses several times easily qualifies as trolling and the massive amount of them doing this makes it no question. This alone should be enough.
They should be banned from the instance. I can’t quite follow how it’s controversial unless some of the mods are letting their politics stand in the way of observations anyone can easily make in a couple of minutes. There is nothing redeeming about this account. They are spreading bad ideas in bad faith, and frankly it shakes my faith in the platform that they can get away with it Scot fucking free. It’s disgusting.
Why would defending my views or opinions not be ok? Other people defend their opinions, why shouldn’t I be able to? Plus if you are that annoyed with me, you can block me and not see anything I post or comment.
I think actively trolling people by arguing in bad faith or through astroturfing like this is definitely poisoning the community. It shouldn’t be tolerated for tolerances’ sake. And I’m not saying to just ban people you don’t agree with. I’m saying people who obviously just post to poke the bear, so to speak, should face discipline for trying to turn Lemmy toxic.
If these articles are from legitimate news organizations, calling it “poking the bear” doesn’t really make sense. I’m not even posting the articles directly—just links to them. And let’s be real, the actual news sites get way more attention than we ever will here. So if you’ve got a problem with the content, take it up with them.
Besides, are people who post a ton of pro-Harris content “astroturfing”? Or do you think what I post is “poison” simply because they don’t match your opinions?
How is posting articles from news orgs “trying to turn Lemmy toxic”? So is posting pro-Harris articles “toxic”? Also you do realize I post pro-Harris articles too, right?
1: You are “poking the bear” because everything you post to this community is pursuant to getting Harris to lose the election, either through pro-PSL or Green articles (via the Spoiler Effect), or through explicitly anti-Harris articles. That’s the pattern behind your posts, it obviously doesn’t matter how reputable a source is to you so long as you can flood Lemmy with this content. “Take it up with them” is a copout for your behavior because you choose to post their articles here.
2: You clearly don’t know what astroturfing even means. What could pro-Harris posts even astroturf for?
3: Repeatedly posting articles about getting Harris to lose the election and arguing in bad faith in defense of why that’s actually good for advancing socialism in the US is toxic because it’s literally incorrect. And when pointed out, you say you don’t actually think a second Trump term would be all that bad for you. It’s patently obvious what you’re trying to do on here, you’re trying to get leftists on board with neo-fascism and accelerationism to enrich yourself.
But I’ve posted articles that are critical of Trump, Stein, and Harris, as well as articles praising each of them. How come you don’t mention those articles?
So, if you’re assuming I agree with every viewpoint in the articles I post, how does that even work when I share so many conflicting perspectives?!
I also created and mod a political news community where people have posted articles praising Harris, criticizing Stein, and trashing me—yet I still leave those up.
Right?! And the vast majority of articles I post aren’t even to this community. And I’ve posted pro-Harris, anti-Stein, and anti-Trump articles too. Funny how the poster who posted my stats neglected to mention that. lol
It is clear they should be banned already.
I think it does bring up some larger issues though. Like should limits be placed on accounts. Do we really want users like this? Are they adding to the experience?
Banned for what? Because I have different views than you do?! Do you realise that the vast majority of articles I post aren’t even to this community?! The person you responded to neglected to tell you that.
Here is my post history: https://lemmy.world/u/UniversalMonk?page=1&sort=New&view=Posts
This community isn’t a “Only pro-Harris posters allowed” community. It celebrates diversity of opinion and thought. It’s not an echo chamber.
If you think the article that was posted for this thread doesn’t align with the community guidelines, feel free to contact the moderators. Thank you!
This was a discussion about you behavior. You did not address this behavior in your post.
The links are okay, but your responses are ridiculous just like the one here. The passive aggressiveness is palpable.
The constant need to disproportionally defend yourself definitely is trollish.
If you wish to address this fine. Otherwise there is not much else to say. I wish you good luck in the future and do hope you will change.
Also, let’s here’s a fun example. I just posted this: https://lemmy.world/post/20405177
It’s actually an anti-Stein/Pro-democrat article. Look at the downvotes of the article. And go read the comments. lol
It got downvoted because I posted it. People downvote me because they think I am a russian troll who wants Trump to win. But I have posted several pro-democrat articles. So how does that fit in with your narrative of me and my behavior? Serious question; not “trolling.”
Because my point is that I think people are actually mad because they are emotional that I’m not voting for Harris. And to explain it, they are quick to say that I have an “agenda” or that “I’m trollish.”
But if I post articles that are pro-democrat/pro-Harris/anti-Trump/anti-Stein, and people are still mad, then how does that fit the idea that I am the one with some agenda?
So you’re saying I should just sit back and say nothing when people spread falsehoods about my motivations? What about when I’m accused of being Russian or not even living in the US—just let that slide too? What about that I am “multiple people” on this account because “no human could do that!” (which is hilarious by the way)
You’re literally advocating for me to be banned, and I shouldn’t respond to that? Really?
How about this: If people don’t want a response from me, or think that my responses are “trollish”, then maybe they should stop making accusations about me and just discuss the article.
A guy in this very thread, posts how many articles I post. And he does it every day. Sometimes multiple times a day. And he comes right out and says I shitpost. Now he is free to do that. My post history is public. But isn’t doing that sort of trying to get some response?
Him posting that and baiting me doesn’t get a rise out of me at all. But it’s obvious he’s targeting me and has been for some time. Feel free to check his post history and what he says to me. Again, he’s free to do that as much as he wants. But don’t I have a right to reply?
I had someone the other day, mention that they were responding to me ad nauseum to just increase the comment count for the post.
Is that in good faith?
If people just stopped responding to me, wouldn’t that pretty much eliminate all the drama?
Now, people TOTALLY have a right to respond to me and try to “call me out.” As often as they want, because it won’t stop me from posting. But if they have that right, don’t I have to right to respond?
Example:
My advice would be to only discuss the points of the article and stop trying to defend yourself in such a ridiculous manner. You don’t need to at all honestly and at this point it only further solidifies people’s perception of you.
You can only control yourself and pointing your finger at everyone else is never a good look.
Surely you can see what you have been doing is not working. Try something else.
Thanks for the advice. But I’ll defend myself and my views when I feel it necessary. Sometimes I ignore, sometimes I don’t. Depends on my mood. And though it was good for some discussion points to have with you, at the end of the day, I don’t really give a shit what angry Lemmy commenters say. lol
I gave you examples, but then you decide to not address those at all. So yeah, I’m not really gonna take your advice on this.
And for the record, I DID ignore all comments and only asked people to respond to the article and not make things personal, and everyone said I was a troll and/or a bot. In fact, I used to put it as a disclaimer when I posted. Caused WAY more uproar and drama than me responding. lolol That’s in my post history as well. So…
I’ll keep posting what I want, when I want, where I want, and respond to people how I want. Whether it is “working” or not. Thank you!
“I’ll keep posting what I want, when I want, where I want, and respond to people how I want. Whether it is “working” or not. Thank you!”
You keep confirming you are a troll, time and time again.
That’s not me being a troll. That’s showing you that no matter how many people here try to bully or pressure me, I have to right to post. That’s me being totally free to post what I want. Just like you are.
Also, it’s against this community’s civility rules to call someone a troll. Thank you!
Just to be clear you are an unbelievably toxic troll. Everyone was right about you. I really tried to give you the benefit of the doubt.
This is not a government run website, you have no rights. You are incapable of self reflection which is bizarre considering your username.
I will call you out for being a troll because it is the unfortunate truth. Peace be with you.
Ban because you disagree with them? And you people say that Republicans are authoritarian.
Try harder please. I have read several articles posted by OP. They clearly have an agenda and have engaged in a lot of trolling behavior.
So the question is having an active troll/propagandist really good for the community. Maybe you could argue that they generate engagement or that we need to protect people’s right to disagree.
The community should carefully weigh this moving forward. If accounts that act like bots are allowed then this place will follow in the footsteps of Digg or Reddit.
Personally, I would have already set them straight as a moderator. I have never been impressed by edgy people who add very little to the conversation.
The mods and admins have actually discussed their account multiple times.
The consensus is, yes, they have shitty opinions, but having shitty opinions is not against the TOS.
The links they post are legitimate links from respected sources.
So, no, nothing bannable or removable here. The comments and downvotes do their job exposing just how shitty their opinions are.
So what about the trolling behavior in comments?
People do not complain about his posts, let me repeat that, his posts are not the problem. Nobody cares about his opinions. Nobody minds that he likes third parties, that part is fine.
It’s the behavior in comment sections that is the problem. How is it that we have a rule 4 that prohibits trolling, but we allow a user who consistently exhibits comment behavior intended to simply irritate whoever is interacting with them? Low effort, consistently full of logical fallacies, frequently misrepresenting himself and others, etc. These indicate a troll.
Again, it is comment behavior that is the problem. How many of his comments need to be removed before it is identified as a problematic account? I think we deserve some transparency here.
Where and how do you draw the line with regards to trolling behaviors in comments sections?
edit: Let me quote him from just below here, where he replied to someone replying to you right here:
Does this add anything to a conversation? Does this further discourse in any constructive way? Does this encourage people to positively participate in our community?
I appreciate your effort here. It seems like the answer is that this user gets special treatment. Maybe it’s a mod or admin’s alt and no one is brave enough to stand against it.
I think they’re just erring on the side of free speech in general. They’ve always been fairly lenient with comment behavior that isn’t extremely blatant. Since they don’t seem to understand the nature of these things, we sort of have a responsibility to educate about it.
I know I have pointed out trolling/suspicious behavior by this account a few times. The mods I’ve talked to never seem to care and just tell me to block them, as if that actually solves the problem.
That’s part of the problem too. They don’t understand what a dedicated troll’s real long-term goals are. Good on them for never having been one, but I’d rather have a rare example of a healthy large internet community than a trolly one.
The problem we have is not with bad opinions.
If I were to copy paste the same response across many threads, intentionally antagonizing users and making that obvious, what is the secret to having that not be considered trolling? Because apparently op somehow discovered how to achieve that. This user is making it beyond obvious. They intend to troll users, and they’re putting a lot of effort into it. Can you help us understand what makes that okay?
I don’t think anyone has a problem with shitty opinions. I think the bigger problem is a pattern of behavior that impairs the community.
Overall you have a user that disrupts the community in a variety of ways and contributes nothing of value - especially in their comments. I think at least a temporary ban has been justified for quite some time.
I don’t have to explain anything to you or anyone else. Feel free to stop responding and commenting on my posts if you don’t want to hear replies from me. Thanks! :)
Wasn’t talking to you, bud.
Feel free to stop responding and commenting on my posts and comments if you don’t want to hear replies from me. Thanks!
But I was talking to you, friend. Thanks!
Right, because you’re a hypocrite. “Don’t reply to me if you don’t want to interact” but then repeatedly dives into deep conversation threads that didn’t include you to add your useless cut-and-paste copypasta du jour. You’re obviously looking at the post history of some individuals, following them around and injecting yourself where you are not wanted. You know who does that? Trolls.
Thank you for calling this out in detail. I think that copy pasting responses several times easily qualifies as trolling and the massive amount of them doing this makes it no question. This alone should be enough.
They should be banned from the instance. I can’t quite follow how it’s controversial unless some of the mods are letting their politics stand in the way of observations anyone can easily make in a couple of minutes. There is nothing redeeming about this account. They are spreading bad ideas in bad faith, and frankly it shakes my faith in the platform that they can get away with it Scot fucking free. It’s disgusting.
Makes perfect sense about the links. Now their conduct of being defensive/borderline trolling in all the responses is not okay.
Thanks for bringing me up to speed.
Why would defending my views or opinions not be ok? Other people defend their opinions, why shouldn’t I be able to? Plus if you are that annoyed with me, you can block me and not see anything I post or comment.
Thank you! (I mean, kind of…lol)
I think actively trolling people by arguing in bad faith or through astroturfing like this is definitely poisoning the community. It shouldn’t be tolerated for tolerances’ sake. And I’m not saying to just ban people you don’t agree with. I’m saying people who obviously just post to poke the bear, so to speak, should face discipline for trying to turn Lemmy toxic.
These are pretty much my thoughts as well.
If these articles are from legitimate news organizations, calling it “poking the bear” doesn’t really make sense. I’m not even posting the articles directly—just links to them. And let’s be real, the actual news sites get way more attention than we ever will here. So if you’ve got a problem with the content, take it up with them.
Besides, are people who post a ton of pro-Harris content “astroturfing”? Or do you think what I post is “poison” simply because they don’t match your opinions?
How is posting articles from news orgs “trying to turn Lemmy toxic”? So is posting pro-Harris articles “toxic”? Also you do realize I post pro-Harris articles too, right?
1: You are “poking the bear” because everything you post to this community is pursuant to getting Harris to lose the election, either through pro-PSL or Green articles (via the Spoiler Effect), or through explicitly anti-Harris articles. That’s the pattern behind your posts, it obviously doesn’t matter how reputable a source is to you so long as you can flood Lemmy with this content. “Take it up with them” is a copout for your behavior because you choose to post their articles here.
2: You clearly don’t know what astroturfing even means. What could pro-Harris posts even astroturf for?
3: Repeatedly posting articles about getting Harris to lose the election and arguing in bad faith in defense of why that’s actually good for advancing socialism in the US is toxic because it’s literally incorrect. And when pointed out, you say you don’t actually think a second Trump term would be all that bad for you. It’s patently obvious what you’re trying to do on here, you’re trying to get leftists on board with neo-fascism and accelerationism to enrich yourself.
So what about the Anti-Trump and Anti-Stein articles that I post too. What bear am I poking when I have posted those?
And how exactly am I trying to “enrich” myself?! What?! lolol
https://lemmy.world/post/20349566
Anti-Stein/Pro-Democrat article I posted. Check the downvotes and the comments.
https://lemmy.world/post/20281854?scrollToComments=true
Anti-Trump article. Check out the comments. So you don’t think I had the right to reply?
https://lemmy.world/post/20405177
Yet another anti-Stein article I’ve posted. Heavily downvoted.
So what is my agenda again? Please explain.
But I’ve posted articles that are critical of Trump, Stein, and Harris, as well as articles praising each of them. How come you don’t mention those articles?
So, if you’re assuming I agree with every viewpoint in the articles I post, how does that even work when I share so many conflicting perspectives?!
I also created and mod a political news community where people have posted articles praising Harris, criticizing Stein, and trashing me—yet I still leave those up.
https://lemmy.world/c/politicsunfiltered
I could have removed them. Seems like a lot of conflicting viewpoints for you to imply I have some agenda.
Right?! And the vast majority of articles I post aren’t even to this community. And I’ve posted pro-Harris, anti-Stein, and anti-Trump articles too. Funny how the poster who posted my stats neglected to mention that. lol