I was on Debian Sid for a year or 2 and gaming was working perfectly until I did an update that uninstalled my GUI and WiFi drivers. I’m on Mint now and it’s been smooth sailing so far

Volume is cubic (r^3) and surface area is quadratic (r^2)

I’m glad you found a natural computer to post with from inside your natural house. Seeing your dogshit opinions is funny.

Appeals to nature are not compelling because all of human progress and civilisation is built upon using technology to surpass nature. Just about everything we interact with in modern society isn’t natural, why would we think that your idea of humans natural diet would be the ideal?

Veganism is an ethical stance, not religious. There are plenty of ethical stance that place restrictions on human behaviour that I’m sure you are totally on with, like when society tells you not to steal from or murder people. Are you prepared to argue against ethics as a whole?

So long as the roads are plowed, winter cycling is pretty easy. I bike all year round in toronto, and just the exercise keeps me warm enough that I’m out in a sweater until -10 or so, and any colder you can bundle up pretty effectively.

The argument is that breeding more animals for the enjoyment of humans is bad, but the existing animals should be given as good of a life as we can. Since rescuing does not directly support the breeders, some vegans are OK with rescuing to give these animals a better life. Some vegans use similar logic to thrift wool sweaters for yarn, when they would not support buying new wool.

Taurine is usually singled or because it is the only nutrient required to meet the AACFO cat food guidelines that can not be readily sourced directly from plants.

Did you read the study they linked and really think that what you posted was the same kind of thing?

From your source:

There are some commercial vegan diets available which have synthetically made nutrients to replace those found only in animal based ingredients.

The discussion is about commercial vegan cat food, which had the nutrients cats need, just sourced without killing other animals. The science on these diets is still relatively new, but early studies are looking pretty good.

Hey thanks for reading the analysis!

I just have a couple points:

The specific study you are referencing in the first 3 quotes is this one. In this study, cats were fed a “human vegetarian” diet. It was not cat food supplemented with more protein, it was casserole mince. The issue isn’t that taurine suppliments don’t work, it’s that those cats didn’t ge any taurine. From the remaining studies in the analysis, cats did not have any issue with taurine on a diet of commercial vegan cat food.

For your last quote, the study they referenced is unfortunately behind a paywall. I do know it was a case study of only 2 cats, while there are other studies with a much larger sample size.

In the future, if you see the same citation used over and over in an article like this, is usually a good idea to go and read it. It will make your time understanding the rest of the article much easier.

I’m going to end with a quite from the publishers of this article that sums it up pretty well for me:

This review has found that there is no convincing evidence of major impacts of vegan diets on dog or cat health.

I’m happy to do research. Care to post some academic literature on the subject?

Taurine is an essential amino acid for cats that is present in animal products. During the manufacturing process of cat food, it is heated to high temperature and some odds this natural taurine is destroyed. To make up for this, synthetic taurine is added back in. This synthetic taurine is made in a lab, and (from wikipedia) in 1993, 5000-6000 tonnes were produced.

If you have any more questions, or any studies or other academic sources I should look at, please don’t hesitate to post them.

Happy to see someone who read through the analysis! I just looked back at your criticism and you make stone goods points. I did notice that almost all the negative effects are coming from the same citation in the study, so I looked into the study they are citing there. Here’s a link to the PDF of that study.

The main take away for me from this study is that they were feeding the cats a “vegetarian human diet,” specifically casserole mince along with a couple others. Feeding these cats a diet designed for humans is obviously bad, but it doesn’t speak to commercial food designed for cats. You can use this to say that a homemade vegan diet is not good for cats. I’ve always said, don’t do a homemade diet for your pets.

There were also negative outcomes from citation 30, but the full text is behind a paywall, so I can’t really check on it. Of anyone has a copy I’d love to read it.

The studies that did use commercially available cat foods (literally all the other studies linked) found that the cats fed a vegan diet were within the range for regular healthy cats.

I am not making the claim that vegan diet is healthier. I am not claiming that you can make your own cat food at home. My specific claim is that there is not a statistically significant difference in the health of cats that eat commercially available vegan cat food. If you have a similar quality study to the contrary, please post it. Until that happens, I’m going to stick with the researchers who published the study, when they say:

Perhaps a take-home message is that use of commercially prepared vegan pet foods appear to be safe for use in cats and dogs but further research is needed.

For the record, science disagrees with you. According to an analysis of all current research, there is no statistically significant difference of cat heath when fed a nutritionally sufficient vegan diet. Of there is a similarly high quality study that finds that a nutritionally sufficient vegan diet is worse for cats I would love to see it.

The vegan diet we are talking about isn’t a bunch of vegetables, it’s a manufactured dry food specifically designed to have all the nutrients a cat needs.

People often use the obligate carnivore excuse, but use it in an unscientific way. Obligate carnivores have nutritional needs that can only be meet through meat in the wild, but humans are perfectly capable of manufacturing these nutrients. We are so good at it that we supplement these synthetic nutrients in meat based cat food already.

This is a contentious issue for most people, and it can be hard when you are very passionate about something to look at the evidence and change your opinion. I’ve looked at a decent number of studies on the topic recently, and they all seen to point to the conclusion that a diet without meat can be healthy for cats, so long as it contains all the nutrients they need.

Sorry that doesn’t actually prove that a vegan diet is significantly more difficult to get complete nutrition than a non-vegan diet.

The two mentioned in the block you quoted (calcium and iodine) are often deficient in non-vegan diets as well. According to this analysis only 6 countries in the world meet the daily recommended 1000 mg of calcium per day. Calcium is also present in the easiest changes you can make to your diet (vegan milk in place of cow milk and tofu as a protein). Iodine is difficult to get for any diet, which is why so many jurisdictions put it in salt. It is also usually present in vegan milk.

Regardless, non-vegans tend to be deficient in a totally different subset of nutrients. Both diets need attention in order to get optimal nutrition. On a vegan diet, you need a source of B12, omega 3, and calcium. Most of the other nutrients are covered by commonly fortified foods or are very easy to keep in mind. Non-vegan diets you need to watch for fibre, vitamin D, vitamin E, potassium, magnesium, avoid too much cholesterol, sodium, red meat, and mercury from fish.

Regardless of the diet you choose, you need to put more thought in than the average person in order to have optimal nutrition. Using nutrition to discredit veganism doesn’t work

the science is clear that most vegans have nutritional deficiencies

Source?

From my experience, it takes about the same effort to get a nutritionally complete diet as a vegan as a carnist. The difference tends to be that people compare their current, shitty diet to an unnecessarily restrictive vegan diet.