- cross-posted to:
- [email protected]
- cross-posted to:
- [email protected]
Israeli PM said to have turned down proposal in early talks and continues to take tough line
You must log in or register to comment.
I’ll tell you a secret: he doesn’t want to get the hostages back yet. They’re serving as a casus belli right now.
Found the Crusader Kings player
casus belli
casus belli /kā″səs bĕl′ī, kä″səs bĕl′ē/
noun
-
An act or event that provokes or is used to justify war.
-
A matter or occasion of war; an excuse or a reason for declaring war: as, the right of search claimed by Great Britain constituted a casus belli in 1812.
-
An act seen as justifying or causing a war.
(The American Heritage® Dictionary of the English Language, 5th Edition)
-
Bibi doesn’t want peace, he wants genocide.
I have a Jewish colleague who calls him Bibi. What’s the deal?
His first name is Benjamin, his family had other Benjamin’s, they nicknamed him Bibi.
Of course he did.
The hostages are much more valuable to Israel in captivity, so they can continually exploit them for genocidal justifications.
This is simply not true.
There were talks about up to 15 hostages, of 239 in demand for 4 days of ceasefire. Hamas needs this ceasefire desperately to regroup and assess the damages. The chaos now serves Israel well and apparently it puts much more pressure on Hamas. The ground invasion proves very effective. Maybe as Hamas becomes more desperate the “price” for the hostages will drop. Alternatively, if Israel will allow them to regroup, the war will take significantly more time because it will be much harder to eradicate them. Maybe the Israelis know where the hostages are held and after a ceasefire the hostages will be transferred to a different hideout, or smuggled via the tunnels to Egypt and from there to who knows where.
Neutral and Israel alligned countries have been calling for a humanatarian pause on purely humanitarian grounds. Even if you don’t care about the hostages, that Hamas was willing to offer them means that they had an interest in such a pause as well; making Israel the only obstacle to it happening. That is to say, the severity of the humanitarian disaster in Gaza is squarly on Israel’s shoulders. The most charitable reading of the situation is that they have determined that the tactical advantage of blocking a humanitarian pause outways the civilian lives they put at risk by doing so.
And even that charitable reading means they are committing collective punishment.
It’s not about the hostages any more. They are the excuse Israel needs to eradicate a whole country.
Israel cares a whole lot about its hostages. Evidence for that are the prices they were willing to pay in the past.
But sure, let’s go with your logic. Why can’t Israel just go carpet-bombing the crowded part in the south of the Gaza strip that all the refugees fled to? It would be a very effective way to eradicate them all. They are so crowded in such a small area that it’s possible to kill a couple hundred thousands in a single day. Wow, Israel has a lot to learn on how to ethnically cleanse a region.
!remindme 1 week “hmmmm”
Netanyahu has been on confrontation with the families of the hostages for weeks now.
This proves nothing. Of course there would be people who wish for any deal regardless of the conditions and it is not surprising that they will confront the government about it.
Did you just completely ignore what Genericusername wrote and decide to reply to him anyway?
The price of Hamas not “regrouping” is not worth committing genocide for.
One source with knowledge of the talks, which slowed after the Israeli ground invasion, said a central point of discussion was a demand by the Israeli side for Hamas to provide a full list specifying the name and details of each person held in Gaza. The Israeli side was unwilling to cease bombardments without receiving this list.
Hamas responded that it was unable to provide the list without a pause in the fighting, as the estimated 240 hostages were held by a number of different groups in places across Gaza. That suggested even Hamas leaders do not know for sure how many people are held captive, their locations or the number who have survived the bombardments.
Another source said Hamas originally demanded prisoner exchanges, fuel and other supplies in return for the hostages, but these demands were dropped in favour of a halt to the airstrikes alone.
“Each time the Israeli counter-demand got harder,” the source said. Members of Hamas have previously said they took hostages in order to exchange them for the thousands of Palestinian prisoners held in Israeli jails.
…
Sources briefed on the talks told Reuters that the group discussed allowing small amounts of fuel into Gaza for humanitarian purposes, which Israel has so far refused, as well as the deal to free a small number of hostages in exchange for a ceasefire of one or two days. The outcome of the talks, however, remained unclear.
It sounds like these sources may be members of Hamas’ negotiating team, which I don’t exactly know that that’s a reliable source.
It doesnt sound like complete BS that Hamas probably doesnt know the exact number, names and placement of hostages at the moment. They probably have a good idea but no definite list.
When Putin was invading Ukraine everyone was calling for the Russians to just kill Putin. When Hamas invaded everyone was calling for the Palestinians to kill Hamas themselves.
Awfully silent these days though now israel is the party committing war crimes.
deleted by creator
I think some people might just be waking up to that now.
As has Palestine.
Telling Palestinians to kill Hamas leaders is useless because the top Hamas leaders are actually living abroad, unlike Putin who stay cooped in Russia.
For practical purposes, Putin is pretty much as safe as the Hamas leaders.
Awful use of the word “everyone”
You’re right I should have clarified. European and Americans which have always yelled that violence against politicians is never justified did a 180 on their morals when they didn’t like someone.
You don’t see the logical pattern here? This is about being against fascists like Putin and Hamas. Nobody is claiming that our side is filled with lawful good angels, only that the other side is mostly assholes whose main goal is to fuck everything up. Therefore it should be obvious who to root for.
Hamas aren’t fascist. They are freedom fighters defending their land. Are Ukrainians fascist to you?
Hamas aren’t fascist.
They are objectively by definition fascist, and as you defend them, you are defending fascists. You should be deeply ashamed of yourself.
Are Ukrainians fascist to you?
No. What kind of a fucked up question is that?
Zelensky isn’t holding elections because they’re at war defending against invaders. According to you he is a fascist right?
deleted by creator
Hamas aren’t fascist
Hahahaha, hole hell that’s the dumbest shit I’ve heard in ages. Thanks for the laugh.
For some of the hostages. Not all of the hostages.
Which is a very important distinction that people here seem to overlook. If you give in to a terrorist’s and hostage taker’s demands you’re inviting more terrorism and hostage-taking because it worked.
Let’s just keep bombing the shit outta Gaza then I guess. No other options.
Honestly, at this point there aren’t any other options. Because the last major conflict in the region was 5 years ago in 2018, there was a real feeling around the world that Hamas/Gaza had “turned a corner” and was open to living in peace with its neighbors. That’s why you had seen rising calls from the West, even the US, calling for a freeze on new settlements in the West Bank. And there was a real hope that maybe covid had “reset” the expectations of both sides in the same way that the end of the Cold War seemingly had.
But it looks like Hamas had no intention of that. Instead they unleashed an attack and had five years of rocket build up behind it instead of the normal two. At this point I don’t know how many more times we need to Hamas the show that it’s uninterested and even the ideal concept of peace. Even Hezbollah, in southern Lebanon, a fellow terrorist organization; seems to have the ability to respect a border with Israel. So at this point yes tearing him off down even with the understanding that a new terrorist like organization might take its place is preferable to the status quo. Because there is a reasonable chance that even a new terrorist organization could respect a border, and not attack its neighbors. And honestly if a Taliban-esque group ends up taking over it probably be a better outcome for the day-to-day of Gazans. That’s f***** up as that is.
Honestly all this will do is infuriate more Gazans who may have lost everything, and will want vengeance. Continuity the cycle. I get Hamas is an issue but making Gazans suffer for it doesn’t help anyone.
How much more angry can they get? Like they’re angry enough to behead children, and cheer raped corpses through their streets. What more do they have to offer?
And yet nowhere did anyone claim otherswise 😕 nor does it improve the situation or change how Bibi is viewed now
(judging by how you phrased this comment)
The headline implies otherwise.
The headline says nothing about the number nor implies anything.
This is why you need to read the rest of an article.
The hostages are a group that’s assumed to be complete. That’s like if someone stole your tires off your car and offered to give “your tires” back to you but only 2 of the 4. People assume they offered all the tires if the headline doesn’t say otherwise.
If you include the partial hostage release, it essentially robs the story as it’s clear why you wouldn’t do a deal for some of the hostages. Making any deal for some of the hostages is stupid.
I think this is dumb. The title didn’t say all hostages. The article didn’t say all hostages. You invented this in your own head then decided to build an argument around it.
I mean future articles covering it have said things like “Ceasefire for $x hostages rejected” for exactly this reason.
Sure but your case is still weak and honestly not even there.
Well, color me surprised… he’s seemed so interested in a peaceful resolution.
Scum propping up scum as always.
bibi is a warmonger, always has been
That’d surely had been a bad idea. I mean, that would disrupt Hamas&Bibi’s spiral of escalation, right?
This is the best summary I could come up with:
Benjamin Netanyahu rejected a deal for a five-day ceasefire with Palestinian militant groups in Gaza in return for the release of some of the hostages held in the territory early in the war, according to sources familiar with the negotiations.
Negotiations resumed after the launch of the Israeli ground offensive on 27 October, but the same sources said Netanyahu had continued to take a tough line on proposals involving ceasefires of different durations in exchange for a varying number of hostages.
An estimated 240 people were taken hostage after fighters from Hamas, Palestinian Islamic Jihad and other groups based in Gaza, as well as civilians, crossed the reinforced border fence separating the territory from Israeli towns and kibbutzim.
According to three sources familiar with the talks, the original deal on the table involved freeing children, women and elderly and sick people in exchange for a five-day ceasefire, but the Israeli government turned this down and demonstrated its rejection with the launch of the ground offensive.
On Thursday the US national security council spokesperson John Kirby said Israel had agreed to daily four-hour “humanitarian pauses”, with the aim that the small breaks in bombardments could aid the passage of hostages out of Gaza.
In mid-October, the former Mossad operative David Meidan, who negotiated the release of the Israeli soldier Gilad Shalit from Gaza over a decade ago, told Haaretz: “There’s no doubt that the first issue the state has to deal with is the matter of the captives … The window of opportunity for this is very narrow.
The original article contains 1,382 words, the summary contains 257 words. Saved 81%. I’m a bot and I’m open source!
This is his only way of staying in power. Fuck Bibi
Considering it wasn’t a return of all of the hostages and additionally Hamas said they intend to repeat the terrorist attack that sparked this, what motivation does Netanyahu have to stop until Hamas is destroyed?
That Hamas did was abhorrent, as was the response of Israel.
What motivation do Hamas have to just take the current occupation of Gaza and living in such a way? Genuinely curious.
This just seems like nobody will win and everybody will suffer. For what?
For what?
To keep the wheels of the military industrial complex turning
Globally, we’re going to need to develop approaches for de-radicalizing large groups of people. Even if we can start on the direction towards peace in this situation, both the Israeli and some segments of Palestinian people seem radicalized to the point of no return, where no true solutions is even possible. I see the same thing in the US with whatever tf you want to call the Republican party. They’re over the cliff. No pulling them back. Yet we need a way to de-radicalize these people otherwise there is no path forward.
