We are going to Vietnam this year for holiday and I’ve read horror stories of poorly distilled alcohol in cocktails and such. Several tourists have died from methanol poisoning.

Would it be feasible to build a small detector for methanol? I’m okay with either a small chemical identification test or something like an IR spectrum analysis.

There are commercial test kits for professional laboratories but I need something affordable for regular consumers.

  • philpo@feddit.org
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    4 hours ago

    There simply is none. Because you have trace amounts of Methanol in every hard liquor as it is created when Pektin is separated during the production. While it can be minimised by proper precautions (right enzymes,right base, etc.) and some liquors carry smaller (Potato,grain based) or higher (fruit based) contents, even professionally produced liquor carries a (very very) small amount.

    This does rule out all the “test stripe/kit” sets that are e.g. used in waste water treatment (methanol there is really bad as it means your plant is contaminated and your bacterial cultures are possibly dead) as they only perform quantitative tests - they tell you “yes/no”. But when every test is potentially a yes,it won’t help. (And additionally they are prone to interference by ethanol and some other stuff and need very specific test conditions)

    So the test needs to be quantitative - it needs to tell you how much Methanol is there. The only mobile process I am aware of is photorefractometer based - and these need very specific sample preparation that is unfeasible with a drink in a bar. Besides, the cheapest commercial product I am aware of is around 4k and “mobile” is,well, a big word for it - the device is the size of around 4 Nintendo switch consoles. (And each test including preparation takes around 5-10min and costs 20 bucks)

    There has been a research project by the Swiss ETH Zurich that claimed that a smaller device has been build,but as far as I know it has not yet reached market maturity so far.

    Lastly it’s also a bit of a problem of practicability - do you want to test each drink? Because what happens if the barkeeper changes the bottle while you drink there? Can you still perform the test after one drink? Or two? Unlikely. Can you make sure the testing conditions in terms of temperature,etc. are met?

    So in the end you are absolutely out of luck,sadly. But there are a few things one can do besides drinking only in reputable bars or drink no alcohol:

    • Stay.the.fuck.hydrated. I know, we all say that a lot, but especially in a warm environment you often aren’t. And in case your body actually encounters Methanol it will need a fucking lot of water to get rid of it as fast as possible (via your kidneys). It’s basically your best bet. Because most methanol poisoning cases are actually never recognised as such, as people simply think they have a hangover,stomach bug,etc. You don’t get blind, you don’t die, you just kill a bit of your liver, heart and brain.

    • Immediately stop drinking if you get a drink that tastes like it contains a lot of alcohol but does not make you tipsy - the inebriation of Methanol is far less than ethanol and while you every likely have already ingested a dose that will severely hurt you, it can make a difference. If you start to feel sickish after that get to a reputable hospital asap. There are good hospitals in Vietnam,but they might not be around the corner. (And for fucks sake get travel insurance)

    • Watch your surroundings. If the bar you are in is only frequented by tourists despite your location making it normally a likely spot for locals as well this is not a good sign. If the bartender used different bottles of the same brand for different guests it is not a good sign as well. If they use two bottles of the same brand for the same drink? Stay the fuck away. (That’s a common way to hide counterfeit alcohol - you have one legit bottle you use for controls, sometimes for shots especially at the beginning of a night and fill drinks and later rounds up with the counterfeit bottle)

    • Now for something a bit more risky: Get a bit drunk beforehand from safe alcohol. No,I am not joking. Methanol competes with regular ethanol for certain enzymes/receptors. By blocking them off before Methanol arrived one can buy the body a bit of time to get rid of more Methanol. (Especially as Ethanol is more competitive). That is why back when I started my career it was not uncommon for a patient to receive ethanol in hospital - or, if that one was “out of stock” for some reason aka an alcoholic pharmacist - to drive lights and sirens to the next 24/7 fuel station as they are allowed to sell alcohol here. Again,that will not safe you,but it might buy your kidneys time.

    • If you feel unusually sickish the next morning,like having an extra hard hangover or similar symptoms for the next 48-72h: Get yourself to a doctor if you have the slightest doubt in your alcohol sources. It’s very rare for people to be intoxicated so badly that they are incapacitated directly. Almost all cases die after a latency period of 48-72h before the real bad symptoms set in. If you are able to receive modern intensive care medicine within that time there is a chance to survive cases nowadays that would have died 15 years ago.

    Or,even easier: Don’t drink.

    (And for fucks sake people: Get travel insurance, don’t drink and drive scooters, and maybe find out where the next private hospital is in the area you travel to. )

  • Hirom@beehaw.org
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    16 hours ago

    This is a good occasion to go alcohol-free during holiday.

    Or at least refrain from ordering alcohol at bars, restaurants, and only buy it from stores when it’s a clearly labeled bottle (contents/ingredients, origin, producer) that you will open and pour yourself.

  • deadcatbounce@reddthat.com
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    1 day ago

    The need for such a device depends where you drink. And life skills.

    Ever bought any illicit drugs? Taken or done anything that could enhance your life? Own a gun? Thought about using it for a split-second?

    Do you see yourself a potential Darwin Award winner? Are you in training?

    Everything is a risk-reward balancing act. If your day-to-day analysis of that continuous series of balances is repeatedly flawed then best not go. Best not step out of your house. Or room. Or Bed. Depending.

    Vietnam is lovely. Went a few years ago as part of a group thing. And I checked today: I am still alive. I prefer the north to the south: people with nothing will share and engage with you, the south provides you with all the opportunities to buy stuff from curbside ventures you could ever wish for (read between the lines).

    They will bombard you with details of the ‘American war’ which as a British bloke was rather sad. Maybe some of you know that history.

  • Jerkface (any/all)@lemmy.ca
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    2 days ago

    Man, if I were half a planet away from home in a government and policing regime I didn’t understand, in a foreign culture, the last thing I would be doing is getting intoxicated, let alone getting so drunk I risked dying.

  • m0darn@lemmy.ca
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    2 days ago

    My investigations into home distilling convinced me that distillation doesn’t convert ethanol into methanol. Moonshine poisoning is the result of adulteration of the product, (mixing it with other intoxicants) not bad distillation.

    Basically sometimes people put other stuff in moonshine to reduce their costs, or give a special buzz. There’s no guarantee that the adulterant to be concerned about is methanol.

    • DerGottesknecht@feddit.org
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      2 days ago

      Yeah, ethanol doesn’t get turned into methanol by distillation. But fermentation produces both and one purpose of distillation is separating them. Thats why you have to remove the foreshot. An incompetent distiller can still cost you your eyesight or even life.

      • m0darn@lemmy.ca
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        21 hours ago

        one purpose of distillation is separating them

        The purpose of distillation in this context is ethanol concentration. Methanol separation is possible but not really the goal.

        Thats why you have to remove the foreshot

        I don’t think the foreshots have a particularly higher concentration of methanol, other nasty stuff sure, but I think methanol is in pretty similar concentration to the ethanol.

        An incompetent distiller can still cost you your eyesight or even life.

        My understanding is that it’s people cutting the ethanol with industrial intoxicants that gets people injured/ killed. Ie people recklessly adulturing the alcohol.

        The only problem I’ve heard of that’s from distilling itself and not intentional contamination is people doing freeze distillation of ciders (skin on).

        That said, most of my reading has been with respect to pot stills and grain beers, maybe fermenting fruits create more methanol than grains, I still think intentional contamination with who knows what is higher on the risk list than accidentally high methanol concentrations. But if you know of specific cases I’d be happy to read them.

        • DerGottesknecht@feddit.org
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          15 hours ago

          Methanol separation is possible but not really the goal.

          If you’re producing spirits it should be your goal. Especially if there is wood in the mash.

          I don’t think the foreshots have a particularly higher concentration of methanol, other nasty stuff sure, but I think methanol is in pretty similar concentration to the ethanol.

          Thats wrong, methanol has a lower evaporation temperature than ethanol, thats why it’s in the foreshot.

          And yes, most of the time it’s greedy business men mixing industrial methanol in their drinks, but there have been some cases of poisoning with self destilled alcohol in the Balkans, i.e

          https://deutsch.radio.cz/methanolvergiftungen-der-slowakei-ursache-ist-tschechischer-schnaps-8337380

          Sorry link is in german.

  • Guenther_Amanita 🍄@slrpnk.net
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    2 days ago

    Testing alcohol by scent or by flame are neither guaranteed nor safe methods, however, to test for the presence of methanol more effectively, you can apply sodium dichromate to a sample of the beverage. To do so, mix 8 mL of a sodium dichromate solution with 4 mL of sulfuric acid. Swirl gently to mix, then add 10 drops of the mixed solution to a test tube or other small container containing the alcohol. Swirl this container gently a few times, then waft the air from the mouth of the container towards your nose by fanning the air toward you with a hand, with the container placed roughly 8-12 inches from your face. Take note of the scent: If it is pungent and irritating, methanol is present in the alcohol. If the scent is dominating and fruity, only ethanol is present, and the beverage is safe.

    Source: https://www.sciencing.com/test-alcohol-methanol-8714279/

      • KittenBiscuits@lemm.ee
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        2 days ago

        Probably simpler to take some duty free liquor from 1 airport before your final destination, and mix your own drinks