• IndustryStandard@lemmy.world
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    2 months ago

    Harris started her political career by condemning Obama for not perfectly obeying Israel. She votes for Israel every time. She even tells a story how she planted trees for Israel as a child.

    The only fine line she is trying to walk is keeping her pro-Palestine voters while doing everything Israel is asking of her.

    • prole@lemmy.blahaj.zone
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      2 months ago

      The only fine line she is trying to walk is keeping her pro-Palestine voters while doing everything Israel is asking of her.

      I’m curious what you think Israel is asking of the Vice President of the United States? What is it that you think the VP does?

      • jatone@lemmy.dbzer0.com
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        2 months ago

        No one is asking her to do anything as VP, this person is saying harris is committed to enabling israel’s genocide and has a history of supporting israel unconditionally. we want her to commit to upholding american laws around not supplying arms genocidal regimes as president; which israel categorically is currently. literally every organization that has investigated israeli conduct in Gaza and now Lebanon has come to the same conclusion. The UN, WHO, our own internal analysis.

        They’ve gone way past self defense and managed to kill more of the hostages than hamas has.

        • nonailsleft@lemm.ee
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          2 months ago

          They’ve gone way past self defense and managed to kill more of the hostages than hamas has.

          How many of the dead hostages would you say Hamas is responsible for?

          • jatone@lemmy.dbzer0.com
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            2 months ago

            I’d probably lay the majority at their feet. between turning the region into a war zone, starvation etc, the chances of them surviving the situation is close to zero. as far as wikipedia is concerned out of the 251 hostages

            • 117 were returned by hamas in a prisoner exchange.
            • 4 were released unilaterally by hamas.
            • 8 were rescued by IDF.
            • 34 bodies have been retrieved (likely dead due to the war zone)
            • 3 bodies returned through unspecified means.

            so frankly Israel’s track record here for ‘rescuing’ the hostages is pretty abysmal. and I can’t think of a worse way than to turn a region into a war zone to rescue them. so far it looks like hamas has been fairly willing to negotiate prisoner releases. who knows if thats still the case though. since you know we killed off the leader who was looking to get a peace deal. but I doubt many more are going to be returned alive after this. I feel for those families and its unfortunate their countries leadership is going to get most of them killed.

            but at the end of the day it doesn’t matter who killed those hostages. they’re dead and nothing will change that. all I know is turning the region into a blood bath didn’t help their chances.

            • nonailsleft@lemm.ee
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              2 months ago

              How many of these people do you think would be dead if Hamas hadn’t kidnapped them?

              • sorval_the_eeter@lemmy.world
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                2 months ago

                How many people was Israel holding prisoner indefinitely and without charge or access to any representation? I’ll answer that for you, a bit over 12000.

                How many of those killed on Oct 7 were killed by Israeli forces?

                How many innocents have been raped or murdered in isralei custody?

                How many dead journalists? Doctors? Aid workers? How many utilities workers (6 more mudered yesterday). Say what you want, each and every one of those deaths is a war crime.

                How many attacks on the UN and UN workers?

                Israel has far far dirtier hands than anyone else so I dont think you get to self righteously open with, “How many of these people do you think would be dead if Hamas hadn’t kidnapped them?”.

                Ridiculous nonsense.

                • nonailsleft@lemm.ee
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                  2 months ago

                  Those are all valid points, most of which I can agree with. But that doesn’t mean that Hamas was helping us build a better world when they went on their killing and kidnapping spree. They wanted to restart the hostilities and that’s not some noble goal that should make us lie about what they did or act like they’re not responsible for the deaths of those they took.

                  • sorval_the_eeter@lemmy.world
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                    2 months ago

                    agreed, but you put people in a murderous pressure cooker and keep turning up the heat and it’ll expode. Thats part of the burden of being in charge. It speaks to motive and I asribe a lot of the blame to Israel for what happened on Oct 7. You dont oppress people to that level for 80 years and then act surprised when they lose their minds over it.

              • jatone@lemmy.dbzer0.com
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                2 months ago

                Lol. Well they were alive until Israel started genociding so likely all of them? They gave no value dead.

                Frankly it doesn’t matter Hamas and Israel government are shit groups that have been killing each other for decades. We never should have created Israel in the first place. It was doomed to bloodshed from the moment it was thought of.

                The best time to plant a tree was 20 years ago. The next best time is now. Take your Zionist bs elsewhere.

                • nonailsleft@lemm.ee
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                  2 months ago

                  I don’t know about you but I never created Israel. The ones that invented and created it did so to escape bloodshed, so I don’t think they’re unwilling to pay the price

                  • jatone@lemmy.dbzer0.com
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                    2 months ago

                    Lolol invented israel to eecape blood shed. Thats rich. Because taking one group of religious fanatics and stealing the land of another group of religious fanatics never caused blood shed. Rofl man i havent laughed this hard all week. Thanks.

      • sorval_the_eeter@lemmy.world
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        2 months ago

        I’m curious what you think Israel is asking of the Vice President of the United States? What is it that you think the VP does?

        She’s a candidate talking about what she’ll do in her term. Stop playing dumb.

      • IndustryStandard@lemmy.world
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        2 months ago

        Here is a good compilation

        https://www.dropsitenews.com/p/can-kamala-harris-wipe-the-blood

        “Soon after being elected to the Senate in 2016, Harris earned a reputation as an ardent defender of Israel. She spoke two years in a row at AIPAC conferences and co-sponsored legislation aimed at undermining a United Nations resolution condemning Israel’s illegal annexation of Palestinian land. One of her first international trips as a senator was to Israel where she met with Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu in 2017. “I support the United States’ commitment to provide Israel with $38 billion in military assistance over the next decade,” Harris told an AIPAC conference that year. “I believe the bonds between the United States and Israel are unbreakable, and we can never let anyone drive a wedge between us. … As long as I’m a United States senator, I will do everything in my power to ensure broad and bipartisan support for Israel’s security and right to self-defense.” Harris has compared building support for Israel to the coalitions forged during the U.S. civil rights movement”