Somewhere in Western newsrooms and political backrooms, there must be an instruction manual or playbook entitled “How to make accusations of antisemitism with hardly any facts.” I imagine that Steve Paikin got hold of it and employed it to write his latest column. I am afraid that the piece is seriously lacking in intellectual honesty.
  • DarthJon@lemmy.world
    14·
    2 months ago

    You don’t understand the Middle East, do you? Strength and power is what leaders respect in the Middle East. They’re not sending a message to Palestinian children, they’re sending a message to Iran and its proxies.

    Do you think Israel should just stand down and let Iran move in for the kill?

    • nova_ad_vitum@lemmy.ca
      1·
      2 months ago

      You don’t understand the Middle East, do you? Strength and power is what leaders respect in the Middle East. They’re not sending a message to Palestinian children, they’re sending a message to Iran and its proxies.

      You literally just missed my point and proved it all at once. How many children are you willing to kill to send your message to the right people?

      Do you think Israel should just stand down and let Iran move in for the kill?

      There is literally no possibility of that happening.

      • DarthJon@lemmy.world
        13·
        2 months ago

        “Won’t anyone think of the poor children?” If you don’t want children to die in war, don’t fucking start war.

        Literally no possibility, huh? WTF do you think they sponsor Hamas and Hezbollah and the Houthis for? Why do they have a doomsday clock in Tehran literally counting down to Israel’s destruction? Just for shits and giggles? But here’s the bottom line: Neither you, nor any other ignorant Western leftist, has the right to demand that Israel takes that chance. That’s exactly what Jewish self-determination (AKA Zionism) is all about.

        • nova_ad_vitum@lemmy.ca
          2·
          2 months ago

          “Won’t anyone think of the poor children?” If you don’t want children to die in war, don’t fucking start war.

          Cool, so because of Oct 7, Isreal has an infinite moral right to kill children? The ones that had nothing to do with this war? LOL. Ridiculous nonsense that you know is wrong. You consider Palestinians subhuman and so does Netanyahu’s regime.

          Literally no possibility, huh?

          Yes, there is literally no possibility. Isreal will nuke Iran before that happens.

          WTF do you think they sponsor Hamas and Hezbollah and the Houthis for? Why do they have a doomsday clock in Tehran literally counting down to Israel’s destruction? Just for shits and giggles?

          Because being against Isreal is the Iranian regime’s political stance that they can’t sway from, mostly in order to stay in power. Similar to how Netanyahu expanded and prolonged this war in an effort to stop his government from falling - a ploy that worked. He didn’t invent this strategy of staying power, but he executed it very well.

          But here’s the bottom line: Neither you, nor any other ignorant Western leftist, has the right to demand that Israel takes that chance.

          There’s no chance being taken. Isreal has nukes, infinite US support, and the US seventh fleet on speed dial. Nothing you said is relevant, Isreal remains completely morally responsible for every bomb they drop and for every child they kill. Apparently the Isreali right to security is so great that literally nobody around them has any lol. The desire for security is NOT a unique Isreali right nor does that desire offer a blanket moral justification for any action.

          That’s exactly what Jewish self-determination (AKA Zionism) is all about.

          No it’s not, and you know it. You just don’t care. The Isreali state as a whole is not in danger.

          • DarthJon@lemmy.world
            13·
            2 months ago

            This isn’t difficult to grasp. Israel has the right to go to war against its enemies, and children die in war. If you can explain how to fight a war without children dying, I’m all ears. But the responsibility for those deaths lies with the people who started the war - especially since they started it knowing full well that large numbers of Palestinians would die in the process. They want those deaths.

            Honestly, you’re just incredibly naive about this. It’s frightening that so many people are so blinded by their hate that they have come to see barbaric terrorists and radical Islamists as the good guys. Your moral compass is just so messed up.

            Oh, and don’t lecture me on what Zionism is. It’s our movement. We defined it.

            • nova_ad_vitum@lemmy.ca
              2·
              2 months ago

              This isn’t difficult to grasp. Israel has the right to go to war against its enemies, and children die in war.

              Really? Does every country have this “right”? Or just Israel? Cause it sounds to me like you granted all of Israel’s enemies the right to go to war against Israel.

              But the responsibility for those deaths lies with the people who started the war - especially since they started it knowing full well that large numbers of Palestinians would die in the process. They want those deaths.

              The responsibility of the consequences of a bullet being fired or a bomb being dropped rests with the person who pulls the trigger. This is true even when those actions are justified. Israel still has agency, and therefore moral responsibility. Nothing you said even brings to refute this.

              Honestly, you’re just incredibly naive about this. It’s frightening that so many people are so blinded by their hate that they have come to see barbaric terrorists and radical Islamists as the good guys.

              I have not said or implied this. You’re setting up a strawman because you have no real argument.

              Your moral compass is just so messed up.

              Says the guy trying so hard to justify the murder of children lol. Just a few thousand more bruh, that’ll make Israel safe.

              Oh, and don’t lecture me on what Zionism is. It’s our movement. We defined it.

              Your movement is defined not by your words by the actions taken in its name. The moral bankruptcy of those actions speaks for itself .

              • DarthJon@lemmy.world
                13·
                2 months ago

                Really? Does every country have this “right”? Or just Israel? Cause it sounds to me like you granted all of Israel’s enemies the right to go to war against Israel.> Do I really have to walk you through this? Israel has the right to go to war because it was attacked first and has lived with genocidal enemies on its borders for decades.

                The responsibility of the consequences of a bullet being fired or a bomb being dropped rests with the person who pulls the trigger. This is true even when those actions are justified. Israel still has agency, and therefore moral responsibility. Nothing you said even brings to refute this.> None of those deaths would have happened if not for the attack on 10/7 that started the war. While the proximal responsibility lies with the people who pull the trigger, the moral responsibility ultimately lies with the organization that carried out the attack knowing full well that Israel would respond and civilians would die.

                Says the guy trying so hard to justify the murder of children lol. Just a few thousand more bruh, that’ll make Israel safe.> Deaths that occur during military actions are not murder. That’s why the concept of collateral damage was articulated. This is basic stuff here.

                Your movement is defined not by your words by the actions taken in its name. The moral bankruptcy of those actions speaks for itself .> Actions are being taken to defend the existence of the Jewish homeland, and any other nation would do the same. I’m sorry you find the idea of Jews defending themselves from annihilation “morally bankrupt.”