Extreme leftists, A.K.A. “tankies” (i.e., apologists for Lenin, Stalin, Mao, the CCP, the DPRK, Fidel Castro, Che Guevara, Xi Jingping, etc.), are threats to a free, egalitarian, and open society, are just as violently authoritarian as their religious, corporatist, and fascist counterparts, and should be treated with the contempt, distrust, and ridicule they deserve.
They claim to speak and fight for the proletariat, promising a new utopia, never before seen, once their revolution executes the last “class-traitor”. In practice, once they’re finished with “seizing the means of production”, they’ll never relinquish control and become the new ruling class.
They’ll assume the mantle of an enlightened elite post-revolutionary administration to guide the proletariat to their promised utopia of “each according to their need, each according to their ability”. In practice, they’ll “need the most, because they’re obviously the most able” in reorganizing the economic and political structure of society. The utopia of the “dictatorship of the proletariat” will never exist, only the dictatorship of the “revolutionary party”. Repression and execution await those who question their claims and decisions. The former champions of labor will become champions of death.
They’re akin to the pigs in Animal Farm, the loudest voices in the revolution, but a bit “more equal” than everyone else after the farmer is done away with. Fortunately, the pigs, like the farmer, got their comeuppance in the end of the story.
Your liberty and self-determination are beset by many threats: the religious, the nihilists, the corporatists, the fascists, and the supposed collectivists. They all claim to be the true authoritative “voice of the people”.
Beware of their cults. Your life is worth more than their “cause” and/or “solution”. Understand what they really are; power over everything, forever, is what they seek. They want you either as a willing pawn or dead, just like all the other presumably benevolent dictators throughout history. Arm yourself with knowledge and clarity in perception. Train your mind and body. Fight and deny the peddlers of arbitrary authoritarianism as if your life depends on it - because it does.
E: Lots of butt-hurt invertebrate Molotov-sippy-cup-throwing wannabe-dictator tankie shit-heels out there, all tryna start the revolution tomorrow. Good luck, comrades.🖕🏽
Ah yes, as if anarchism, liberalism, libertarianism or really any other human ideology and methodology centered entirely on egoism don’t engender some strange communal cargo cult behavior. It’s almost as though they too are full of shit?
It is funny to believe in ‘self-determination’ when you can’t even recognize that all the important decisions have already been made for you. It is rich to pretend to fight against the nihilist when you only believe in yourself. So go egoist, live your life as you please, blissfully unaware that you are just as stuck the very herd of individuality that we all find ourselves in.
No, you’re utterly wrong about what my beliefs are.
I believe in mutualism, in voluntarily exchange of ideas, labor, and value, all collectively bargained.
I believe in democracy, in secular federal republics, and forthright debate about the value of human life and who gets to make decisions about that concept and it’s implications, where words have actual meaning, balance is considered a virtue, and an individual can still have rights and protections from other individuals, collectives, and the state while being subject to the will of a popular vote.
I will never tolerate those who presume to speak for or demand my family, my friend’s, my colleagues’, or my labor, sacrifice, skill, and knowledge at the point of a gun or a knife.
Fellate yourself over your dreams of becoming the pEoPLe’s ChAmPiOn of ThE rEvoLuTiOn on your own time, not mine.
If the violent revolution against the current brand of authoritarians in power is led, co-opted, or hijacked by the authoritarian left, the proponents of democracy, equity, and liberty will be executed very quickly after, as history has shown time and again.
So, no, the extortionist capitalists won’t go away quietly, but I don’t trust the tankies to bring about some utopia after they execute the “class-traitors and class-enemies”.
But history has a pretty clear record about what the authoritarian left does right after they “win”, and it’s not the “egalitarian equitable utopia” they claim they’ll usher in.
Sarcasm and posturing? How do you honestly plan to diplomatically redistribute power/wealth without this happening? When has meaningful change ever happened without those in power engaging in violent retaliation against the often peaceful and nonviolent exploited classes? And here you sit and smugly discard all the movements that actually managed to get something done as ‘fascist’ and ‘corporatist’’
It may take a violent revolution, but I don’t trust any tankie to bring about a utopia after the dust settles once all the fascists and corporatists get their due. They’re just another flavor of authoritarian statists.
The rulership of the revolutionary party forever is all they’re interested in. Seizing the means of production “for the party”, never really for the proletariat, who they will happily execute once their usefulness has been served. As history has shown time and again.
Sorry your so butt hurt by sarcasm and “posturing”, but I’m old enough to spot wannabe populist dictators and their ball-garglers easily. They get nothing but contempt, ridicule, or fists, knives, and bullets when they get really grabby.
Oh my god dude you sound so pathetic right now. If you actually do hold radical left beliefs of any kind and it’s not just a cute online label for you (really doubt that but I’ll give you the benefit of a doubt) go outside, touch some fucking grass, and organize IRL, or at least talk to people IRL about it. We’ve all heard your bullshit “anti tankie” tirades from people like you a thousand times over, you’re not changing any minds and are not impressing anybody with your arguments, I can absolutely guarantee you that.
organize IRL, or at least talk to people IRL about it.
I do. I’m part of a union. And I vote regularly, and talk to my peers, colleagues and friends about politics especially at the local level. I have attended debates and lectures as well.
We’ve all heard your bullshit “anti tankie” tirades from people like you a thousand times over, you’re not changing any minds
Hey numbskull, did you forget what the original thread meme was about in the first place? I’m not saying any of this to change minds en masse; the question was to paraphrase, “what is your opinion counter to what many other’s is?”
You’re so butt hurt, you gloss over the original meme in the first place just to tell me I’m full of shit. Wow, didn’t expect that from tankies at all. 🙄
and are not impressing anybody with your arguments, I can absolutely guarantee you that.
Cool beans, tough guy, not here to “impress”, just answering a meme question. Remember?
Go suck each other’s dick on hexbear or lemmygrad about “how ya got me good”. I’m sure I’ll be malding all night about it.
Good luck with the revolution, “sPaCe_CoMrAdE”. 🖕🏽
As soon as you have any actual answer on how to demonstrably improve peoples’ lives and do this either within this system in a way that they’ll let you, or without this system in a way that they won’t assassinate you, I’m with you. I’m serious about that. But you don’t have an answer, I already know, because all I see is posturing and arm chair theorizing.
As soon as you have any actual answer on how to demonstrably improve peoples’ lives and do this either within this system in a way that they’ll let you, or without this system in a way that they won’t assassinate you, I’m with you.
If we’re talking about the United States, the “answer” is historically clear: collective action, the spread and dissemination of the history of the labor movements, what our laws say about capital and labor today, what our personages in government’s rhetoric is about labor, when the next elections are for their office, and how to organize, starting locally and building to the state and federal level. Kind of like what’s happening now.
If violence and aggression occur, be extremely wary of how quickly it can lead to purges and an even darker more authoritarian system, even if the religious, fascists, and/or corporatists are defeated. The pigs who squeal the loudest about how they’re the voice of the people tend to be quickest to put people’s backs against the wall.
This was my original point. Your whataboutism is expected and is boring.
all I see is posturing and arm chair theorizing.
This is exactly what I see and hear when I talk to the latest Bolshevik boot-lickers who pass themselves as experts on Marxist theory, capital and labor, history, and how to depose the government of the US.
At least those people are looking at places where actual revolutions happened and were sustained. Contrary to the US, where unions get busted, action groeps cointelpro-d, leaders assassinated, police violence used, and only the threat of the USSR to gain any social progress. And where QoL is on a steady decline? Please give me a better example.
Furthermore, historically, no one socialist nation has ever existed without being under continuous attack from those very forces - religious, fascists, corporatists, so I don’t know what your on about. You’re clearly passionate but I read your comments as incredibly idealistic to a fault.
Edit: and what’s happening now is the very likely possibility of a 2nd Trump administration and this insane 2025 plan they’re cooking up. So I don’t even know where you are getting your information.
You’re clearly passionate but I read your comments as incredibly idealistic to a fault.
Edit: and what’s happening now is the very likely possibility of a 2nd Trump administration and this insane 2025 plan they’re cooking up. So I don’t even know where you are getting your information.
Hopefully this will be abundantly clear and we can both move on with our lives:
I’m not here to give examples of whatever vague (and very predictable) whataboutism tactic you throw at me and get caught up in some pointless argument with you on a meme thread.
My original point in answering this meme question posed by OP is to not trust authoritarian tankies who historically, time and again, purge their luckless proletariat “allies” after deposing the original authoritarians to retain a stranglehold on power and bring about an even darker and bloodier regime after they co-opt and hijack any mass political movement they can sink their parasitic little tankie dictator teeth into.
I don’t care if you don’t believe that.
Just like how neo-nazis think the Holocaust wasn’t real, plenty of tankies believe the USSR never really invaded Poland the same time Nazi Germany did. Or the purges in Ukraine weren’t that bad. Or not that many people died during the invasion of Tibet. Or in the Cultural Revolution. Or Tienanmen Square. History from multiple non-western sources have a lot to say about the so-called authoritarian left. You can start with The Kulak Archipelago.
When I said “what’s happening now”, I’m referring to recent labor union victories all over the United States that have been documented in the news.
Though you might be, I’m not a Bolshevik true-believer (obviously) and I’m done with the authoritarian Kool-Aid. I’m old enough to recognize wannabe jack-booted thugs and dictator ball-garglers pretty easily nowadays. It’s not that hard, they’re everywhere from just about every economic and political stripe.
The only thing that ties them all together is when they say something along the lines of “tHe true VerSiON oF __________ HASN’t BEeN Tried YeT”, while glossing over the historic oceans of blood on their ideology’s hands.
And as soon as you mention any of that? “wHatAboUt ________ism aND tHEIr blAh BLaH BlaH blAH?”
Whatever point you’re trying to prove, you’re not going to convince me. I used to be pretty hard Auth-Left myself, back in the day. I’ve left that cult in the dumpster where it belongs. You’re either trying to catch me in some “gotcha” circle-jerk, or are too butt-hurt about me condemning tankies to remember what the original point of OP’s thread was, or are just really dense.
You go your way, rhetorically fellate whatever autocrat-of-the-week your heart desires, and I’ll go mine, and, hopefully, we won’t ever have to meet in real life.
i didnt voice any opinion on what the extreme or far left are, so i imagine you either didnt understand my comment or are being contrarian for the sake of being contrarian
The point of animal farm is “Communists are so shit, they’re almost as bad as capitalists”. Suggesting that Orwell wouldn’t prefer communism to capitalism is simply false.
His writings on the matter in his essays seem pretty clear that he’s against arbitrary unchecked statist authoritarianism, which is what I’m talking about.
“I support the upcoming American Hitler 2.0 rounding up and elimination of undesirables fascism because a system that forces me to contribute to the healthcare of others is equally bad.”
Extreme leftists, A.K.A. “tankies” (i.e., apologists for Lenin, Stalin, Mao, the CCP, the DPRK, Fidel Castro, Che Guevara, Xi Jingping, etc.), are threats to a free, egalitarian, and open society, are just as violently authoritarian as their religious, corporatist, and fascist counterparts, and should be treated with the contempt, distrust, and ridicule they deserve.
They claim to speak and fight for the proletariat, promising a new utopia, never before seen, once their revolution executes the last “class-traitor”. In practice, once they’re finished with “seizing the means of production”, they’ll never relinquish control and become the new ruling class.
They’ll assume the mantle of an enlightened elite post-revolutionary administration to guide the proletariat to their promised utopia of “each according to their need, each according to their ability”. In practice, they’ll “need the most, because they’re obviously the most able” in reorganizing the economic and political structure of society. The utopia of the “dictatorship of the proletariat” will never exist, only the dictatorship of the “revolutionary party”. Repression and execution await those who question their claims and decisions. The former champions of labor will become champions of death.
They’re akin to the pigs in Animal Farm, the loudest voices in the revolution, but a bit “more equal” than everyone else after the farmer is done away with. Fortunately, the pigs, like the farmer, got their comeuppance in the end of the story.
Your liberty and self-determination are beset by many threats: the religious, the nihilists, the corporatists, the fascists, and the supposed collectivists. They all claim to be the true authoritative “voice of the people”.
Beware of their cults. Your life is worth more than their “cause” and/or “solution”. Understand what they really are; power over everything, forever, is what they seek. They want you either as a willing pawn or dead, just like all the other presumably benevolent dictators throughout history. Arm yourself with knowledge and clarity in perception. Train your mind and body. Fight and deny the peddlers of arbitrary authoritarianism as if your life depends on it - because it does.
E: Lots of butt-hurt invertebrate Molotov-sippy-cup-throwing wannabe-dictator tankie shit-heels out there, all tryna start the revolution tomorrow. Good luck, comrades.🖕🏽
Ah yes, as if anarchism, liberalism, libertarianism or really any other human ideology and methodology centered entirely on egoism don’t engender some strange communal cargo cult behavior. It’s almost as though they too are full of shit?
It is funny to believe in ‘self-determination’ when you can’t even recognize that all the important decisions have already been made for you. It is rich to pretend to fight against the nihilist when you only believe in yourself. So go egoist, live your life as you please, blissfully unaware that you are just as stuck the very herd of individuality that we all find ourselves in.
No, you’re utterly wrong about what my beliefs are.
I believe in mutualism, in voluntarily exchange of ideas, labor, and value, all collectively bargained.
I believe in democracy, in secular federal republics, and forthright debate about the value of human life and who gets to make decisions about that concept and it’s implications, where words have actual meaning, balance is considered a virtue, and an individual can still have rights and protections from other individuals, collectives, and the state while being subject to the will of a popular vote.
I will never tolerate those who presume to speak for or demand my family, my friend’s, my colleagues’, or my labor, sacrifice, skill, and knowledge at the point of a gun or a knife.
Fellate yourself over your dreams of becoming the pEoPLe’s ChAmPiOn of ThE rEvoLuTiOn on your own time, not mine.
How do you intend to make such a reality happen?
vIoLeNt ReVoLuTiOn, oBvIoUsLy. 🫵🏽🤡
You can be as smug as you want about it, but the people who benefit from capitalism as it exists aren’t just going to let you change things.
If the violent revolution against the current brand of authoritarians in power is led, co-opted, or hijacked by the authoritarian left, the proponents of democracy, equity, and liberty will be executed very quickly after, as history has shown time and again.
So, no, the extortionist capitalists won’t go away quietly, but I don’t trust the tankies to bring about some utopia after they execute the “class-traitors and class-enemies”.
So you admit it will be violent revolution then?
Maybe. I don’t know. I hope not.
But history has a pretty clear record about what the authoritarian left does right after they “win”, and it’s not the “egalitarian equitable utopia” they claim they’ll usher in.
Sarcasm and posturing? How do you honestly plan to diplomatically redistribute power/wealth without this happening? When has meaningful change ever happened without those in power engaging in violent retaliation against the often peaceful and nonviolent exploited classes? And here you sit and smugly discard all the movements that actually managed to get something done as ‘fascist’ and ‘corporatist’’
It may take a violent revolution, but I don’t trust any tankie to bring about a utopia after the dust settles once all the fascists and corporatists get their due. They’re just another flavor of authoritarian statists.
The rulership of the revolutionary party forever is all they’re interested in. Seizing the means of production “for the party”, never really for the proletariat, who they will happily execute once their usefulness has been served. As history has shown time and again.
Sorry your so butt hurt by sarcasm and “posturing”, but I’m old enough to spot wannabe populist dictators and their ball-garglers easily. They get nothing but contempt, ridicule, or fists, knives, and bullets when they get really grabby.
They can all kick rocks, barefoot.🖕🏽
Oh my god dude you sound so pathetic right now. If you actually do hold radical left beliefs of any kind and it’s not just a cute online label for you (really doubt that but I’ll give you the benefit of a doubt) go outside, touch some fucking grass, and organize IRL, or at least talk to people IRL about it. We’ve all heard your bullshit “anti tankie” tirades from people like you a thousand times over, you’re not changing any minds and are not impressing anybody with your arguments, I can absolutely guarantee you that.
I do. I’m part of a union. And I vote regularly, and talk to my peers, colleagues and friends about politics especially at the local level. I have attended debates and lectures as well.
Hey numbskull, did you forget what the original thread meme was about in the first place? I’m not saying any of this to change minds en masse; the question was to paraphrase, “what is your opinion counter to what many other’s is?”
You’re so butt hurt, you gloss over the original meme in the first place just to tell me I’m full of shit. Wow, didn’t expect that from tankies at all. 🙄
Cool beans, tough guy, not here to “impress”, just answering a meme question. Remember?
Go suck each other’s dick on hexbear or lemmygrad about “how ya got me good”. I’m sure I’ll be malding all night about it.
Good luck with the revolution, “sPaCe_CoMrAdE”. 🖕🏽
@[email protected] can we make this entire post a tagline
As soon as you have any actual answer on how to demonstrably improve peoples’ lives and do this either within this system in a way that they’ll let you, or without this system in a way that they won’t assassinate you, I’m with you. I’m serious about that. But you don’t have an answer, I already know, because all I see is posturing and arm chair theorizing.
Edit for Michael Parenti who ofcourse has absolutely amazing things to day on the issue: https://youtu.be/6gtUaGV6mNI?feature=shared
If we’re talking about the United States, the “answer” is historically clear: collective action, the spread and dissemination of the history of the labor movements, what our laws say about capital and labor today, what our personages in government’s rhetoric is about labor, when the next elections are for their office, and how to organize, starting locally and building to the state and federal level. Kind of like what’s happening now.
If violence and aggression occur, be extremely wary of how quickly it can lead to purges and an even darker more authoritarian system, even if the religious, fascists, and/or corporatists are defeated. The pigs who squeal the loudest about how they’re the voice of the people tend to be quickest to put people’s backs against the wall.
This was my original point. Your whataboutism is expected and is boring.
This is exactly what I see and hear when I talk to the latest Bolshevik boot-lickers who pass themselves as experts on Marxist theory, capital and labor, history, and how to depose the government of the US.
At least those people are looking at places where actual revolutions happened and were sustained. Contrary to the US, where unions get busted, action groeps cointelpro-d, leaders assassinated, police violence used, and only the threat of the USSR to gain any social progress. And where QoL is on a steady decline? Please give me a better example.
Furthermore, historically, no one socialist nation has ever existed without being under continuous attack from those very forces - religious, fascists, corporatists, so I don’t know what your on about. You’re clearly passionate but I read your comments as incredibly idealistic to a fault.
Edit: and what’s happening now is the very likely possibility of a 2nd Trump administration and this insane 2025 plan they’re cooking up. So I don’t even know where you are getting your information.
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Hopefully this will be abundantly clear and we can both move on with our lives:
I’m not here to give examples of whatever vague (and very predictable) whataboutism tactic you throw at me and get caught up in some pointless argument with you on a meme thread.
My original point in answering this meme question posed by OP is to not trust authoritarian tankies who historically, time and again, purge their luckless proletariat “allies” after deposing the original authoritarians to retain a stranglehold on power and bring about an even darker and bloodier regime after they co-opt and hijack any mass political movement they can sink their parasitic little tankie dictator teeth into.
I don’t care if you don’t believe that.
Just like how neo-nazis think the Holocaust wasn’t real, plenty of tankies believe the USSR never really invaded Poland the same time Nazi Germany did. Or the purges in Ukraine weren’t that bad. Or not that many people died during the invasion of Tibet. Or in the Cultural Revolution. Or Tienanmen Square. History from multiple non-western sources have a lot to say about the so-called authoritarian left. You can start with The Kulak Archipelago.
When I said “what’s happening now”, I’m referring to recent labor union victories all over the United States that have been documented in the news.
Though you might be, I’m not a Bolshevik true-believer (obviously) and I’m done with the authoritarian Kool-Aid. I’m old enough to recognize wannabe jack-booted thugs and dictator ball-garglers pretty easily nowadays. It’s not that hard, they’re everywhere from just about every economic and political stripe.
The only thing that ties them all together is when they say something along the lines of “tHe true VerSiON oF __________ HASN’t BEeN Tried YeT”, while glossing over the historic oceans of blood on their ideology’s hands.
And as soon as you mention any of that? “wHatAboUt ________ism aND tHEIr blAh BLaH BlaH blAH?”
Whatever point you’re trying to prove, you’re not going to convince me. I used to be pretty hard Auth-Left myself, back in the day. I’ve left that cult in the dumpster where it belongs. You’re either trying to catch me in some “gotcha” circle-jerk, or are too butt-hurt about me condemning tankies to remember what the original point of OP’s thread was, or are just really dense.
You go your way, rhetorically fellate whatever autocrat-of-the-week your heart desires, and I’ll go mine, and, hopefully, we won’t ever have to meet in real life.
You clearly care, deeply. I look forward to reading something you write on the subject, or to see you organise.
In the United States, I was part of IATSE. Now, due to my wife’s health diagnosis I live in the Netherlands.
Writing about Authoritarian cultists will only remain a hobby. Far better men have written far more important pieces on the matter.
They’re not leftists - they’re just red-coded fascists.
The clearest evidence of this is the total disregard for worker enfranchisement and meaningful decommodification.
this is the mainstream view on the far-left
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no, it is the mainstream view on non-western far-left groups too
We have different opinions on what the extreme or far left are, or perhaps where the “center” is.
i didnt voice any opinion on what the extreme or far left are, so i imagine you either didnt understand my comment or are being contrarian for the sake of being contrarian
I think I misunderstood you.
The point of animal farm is “Communists are so shit, they’re almost as bad as capitalists”. Suggesting that Orwell wouldn’t prefer communism to capitalism is simply false.
His writings on the matter in his essays seem pretty clear that he’s against arbitrary unchecked statist authoritarianism, which is what I’m talking about.
“I support the upcoming American Hitler 2.0 rounding up and elimination of undesirables fascism because a system that forces me to contribute to the healthcare of others is equally bad.”
Cool story bro
The fuck you talkin’ about here, “bro”?
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Righties: YoU cAnT rEaD lOl
Also righties:
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